A Non-Catholic Perspective

[jfallaw]

Umm… who the heck is JesusYeshuallsa?

 

[jfallaw]

Luther divided Christ’s Church by making his own Church. What authority did he had to separate? I think he was a very selfish man to break with Rome.

Actually, Luther was excommunicated by the Church- he didn’t leave willingly.

 

[Randy_Carson]

ISecond, the main view about the Pope, in my circles, is that he is just a man that is a sinner just like the rest of us.

Of course the Pope is a sinner.

Do you think Catholics believe otherwise?

 

[David123]

If you really want to know, what Luther said, read Luther Works so you can find out the truth from the fiction.

I am very interested in doing just that. Do you happen to know where/how I can get Luther’s writings in print form? I’d rather not read them online since staring at the computer screen for a long time makes my eyes very tired. :yawn:

 

[jmcrae]

Actually, Luther was excommunicated by the Church- he didn’t leave willingly.

He was gone in spirit long before he was excommunicated.

 

[Sabda]

I have not had the time to read this entire thread, however, I did read where someone had written about Purgatory.

WHY would anyone ever believe in it? It was pounded into my head when I was a kid, pre-Vatican II. I was pounded in afterward. I guess there is still the belief that it exists, that when your sins are forgiven, there is still some “payment” required and that Purgatory is the only answer.

How absurd.

The belief of Purgatory is so much against the Bible, it makes the head swim. There are many, many references in the Bible that makes it perfectly clear that when the sin has been confessed and forgiven, (not by man) that it is no longer remembered. If one is to believe that Purgatory exists, for whatever reason, then the Sacrifice that Jesus made for us, would all be in vain.

When I was going though RCIA to be confirmed we had a couple that was coming into the Church. At one of our meetings the wife said that she found the teachings of Purgatory to be so very beautiful. You clearly don’t understand what Purgatory is. Purgatory truly shows us just how merciful God really is. God truly does not want to lose any of us. BTW, yes Purgatory is biblical. As others have stated start a new thread or go check out the search function at the top of the page.

 

[Sabda]

“I notice you do not give any example of the Church ‘changing its mind on things.’ Don’t have one? Just throwing your claim out there hoping it will stick?”

I have plenty to say, and I am not just “throwing out a claim”. I was busy starting a new thread about Purgatory, that is all.

Since a few of you have asked what has changed, I’ll tell you. Most recently, the non-existance of Limbo. Where did everyone in Limbo go when it was “abolished”?

deb1, I never said anything about Purgatory being part of Hell. I KNOW that.

I’m not going to talk about Purgatory in this thread any more, I started a thread about it, so I will answer things there.

This is from the Baltimore Catechism which predates Vatican II.

Q. 632. Where will persons go who – such as infants – have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?

A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the **common belief **they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.

Note it says that it was a common belief. Limbo was not officially taught by the Church. It was something that we were free to believe. You need to look at official Church teaching and not listen to what ever Tom, and Harry have to say about the matter. I find many times such people do nothing more than misquote something or are just continuing the spreading of myths. Kind of like the myth that walking under a ladder is bad luck. How long has that myth been around? One of the best places to learn about Church teaching is from the Catechism . Which is completely LOADED with quotes from the Bible.

 

[fellowChristian]

Because of Adam’s sin (yes,sin) the gates to heaven were closed. The saints (holy ones) who died between the time of Adam and Jesus were in the bosom of Abraham (limbo) Limbo meaning they could not enter heaven but did not deserve hell. They laid in stste.When Jesus died on the cross and the earth shook. They “woke up”.

Matt:27: 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

We can not enter heaven if our souls are stained with sin. We must be “spotless”

Without sin! Completely!

Lets say you you could not enter heaven but you did not deserve hell. Could your sins be “purged” or purfied from your soul?

Not a place. A proccess.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15

13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

1 Peter 1:6-7

6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,

7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;