A non Wedding Wedding

[Bleumyst]

Hi Guys,

Very new here, so if I’ve posted in the wrong forum, please just move me along.

Here’s my question. And before I even begin, yes, I plan to discuss with my priest. But right now I’m just looking for some general (name removed by moderator)ut.

I am a practicing Catholic and a convert. I’m dating, and have been for about 2 years, a wonderful man who is not Catholic… yet. He’s been coming to mass with me faithfully since we began dating and is in the process of joining RCIA. We hope to be married some time next year.

Here’s the issue. I and my daughter are the only Catholics, and may still be so at the time of the wedding. If he’s finished his conversion by the time of the marriage, then it will be just the three of us. My family is not Catholic. His family is not Catholic and the lion’s share of our friends also do not share our faith. More, his parents are opposed to the marriage in general and the Catholicism in particular. They won’t shun us over it, but have made their displeasure well known.

I have been married once before, though I am now free to marry within the church. Point is, I neither need nor have the slightest interest in “the wedding” outside of the actual sacrament and blessing itself, if that makes sense. I don’t want attendants. I don’t want flowers. I don’t want music. Other than one or two dear Catholic friends and our parents, I don’t want guests. I don’t want a reception beyond a small, private party we’ll host at home. We are in 100% agreement on this one.

My question is, what is the actual bare bones ceremony? Can I simply have a 10 minute rite with the priest, him, two witnesses and a blessing? Or must their be procession and readings, homily etc, even if we do not have communion? Something more along the lines of a convalidation though obviously not the same?

Because there is open opposition from his family, no religious unity in either of our families and no Catholic members I really want this to be as simple as possible. The ceremony should be sacred and joyful, not a heartache to organize and a strain on everyone.

I’ve looked everywhere and cannot find an answer. I’m the anti-bride apparently. Everyone else wants “the wedding” - I just want the marriage.

Any advice?

 

[benedictgal]

The Holy Father has recommended, in Sacramentum Caritatis, that in situations like yours, the Nuptial Rite (without the Mass be celebrated):

In this regard, I would like to call attention to a pastoral problem frequently encountered nowadays. I am referring to the fact that on certain occasions – for example, wedding Masses, funerals and the like – in addition to practicing Catholics there may be others present who have long since ceased to attend Mass or are living in a situation which does not permit them to receive the sacraments. At other times members of other Christian confessions and even other religions may be present. Similar situations can occur in churches that are frequently visited, especially in tourist areas. In these cases, there is a need to find a brief and clear way to remind those present of the meaning of sacramental communion and the conditions required for its reception. Wherever circumstances make it impossible to ensure that the meaning of the Eucharist is duly appreciated, the appropriateness of replacing the celebration of the Mass with a celebration of the word of God should be considered. (153)

I hope this helps you. This ceremony is a wedding in the full sense of the Rite; it’s just celebrated outside the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[EasterJoy]

You might also consider that, since you aren’t going to be breaking the church building open with all your guests, you could give your fellow parishioners the pleasure and honor of witnessing your marriage vows at a weekend Mass. It really is a blessing to witness a marriage, after all, especially for the married couples in attendance.

I’m not sure if that would work if your spouse won’t be baptized by then–I don’t know that wedding vows are exchanged during Mass when there is a “disparity of cult” still in existence, considering that one of the parties is a catechumen–but it is something to consider.

 

[Bleumyst]

Thank you for that. I’ve attended several such ceremonies and still find them to be “more” than I really want. There is still a procession in, several readings and a homily. But perhaps that is simply the way those being married set it up?

Is it possible to simply have a single reading (or none - though I realize that isn’t a celebration of the Word) no homily, an exchange of intentions, vows and a prayer of blessing?

I don’t mean to sound callous. I grew up Protestand and have a deep and abiding love of scripture. I don’t mean any manner of rejection. But I’d be happiest if we could simply arrive together, spend five minutes before the tabernacle, say our vows and go home. Nothing more.

Obviously I’ll submit to whatever the Church requires. I guess I’m just trying to figure out what are the absolute basics, even if they are not the most recommended, so long as they are genuinely legitimate.

 

[1ke]

My question is, what is the actual bare bones ceremony? Can I simply have a 10 minute rite with the priest, him, two witnesses and a blessing?

Yes. You can get married with just the priest and two witnesses.

Even if you have a full Mass, you can have it with just the priest and a couple of witnesses. You do not have to havea procession, attendants, flowers, etc. You would have the Marriage Rite outside of Mass.

Just talk to your priest.

 

[Bleumyst]

I actually love the weekend Mass idea.

However, both sets of parents would be unhappy. It’s sad, but true enough. His in particular would not want to attend a Mass and would complain we were doing it that way to exclude them or deliberately make them uncomfortable. Mine would feel that if we were going to that we might as well have a “real” wedding.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you for that. I’ve attended several such ceremonies and still find them to be “more” than I really want. There is still a procession in, several readings and a homily. But perhaps that is simply the way those being married set it up?

Is it possible to simply have a single reading (or none - though I realize that isn’t a celebration of the Word) no homily, an exchange of intentions, vows and a prayer of blessing?

I don’t mean to sound callous. I grew up Protestand and have a deep and abiding love of scripture. I don’t mean any manner of rejection. But I’d be happiest if we could simply arrive together, spend five minutes before the tabernacle, say our vows and go home. Nothing more.

Obviously I’ll submit to whatever the Church requires. I guess I’m just trying to figure out what are the absolute basics, even if they are not the most recommended, so long as they are genuinely legitimate.

If your spouse is baptized, I don’t think it gets any more basic than going to a weekend Mass that you would be at anyway, standing up after the homily, exchanging your vows, and going back to your seats. The attention only has to be on you for that long…you do not have to be part of a processional or recessional. You don’t have to kick in for the flowers or have anything to do with choosing the readings or the music. You don’t even have to hang around for coffee and donuts, nor do you have to provide a cake social in the parish hall on a Saturday night.

I will not guarantee, however, that you would not be provoking a brief erruption of applause during Mass, although I’m sure the priest would ask people to please hold their applause, if you wish. It really can be that simple.

 

[Bleumyst]

Yes. You can get married with just the priest and two witnesses.

Just talk to your priest.

Thanks. I wasn’t sure and have never seen it done (duh… guess not if no one else was invited :newidea: ) and was finding nothing that indicated such was possible. Everything is just geared for those who want more, I suppose.

We’ll be meeting with our priest soon, I just didn’t want to ask for something out of bounds. Everyone’s encouragement here has been helpful.

 

[Bleumyst]

If your spouse is baptized, I don’t think it gets any more basic than going to a weekend Mass that you would be at anyway, standing up after the homily, exchanging your vows, and going back to your seats. The attention only has to be on you for that long…

Really do love this idea. He IS baptized. Not sure how we’d handle the other, but going to think on this one some more. Thanks!

 

[EasterJoy]

I actually love the weekend Mass idea.

However, both sets of parents would be unhappy. It’s sad, but true enough. His in particular would not want to attend a Mass and would complain we were doing it that way to exclude them or deliberately make them uncomfortable. Mine would feel that if we were going to that we might as well have a “real” wedding.

Be honest: is there any way to make this set of people happy at the same time?

If your husband is Catholic by then, most dioceses pretty much require the marriage to be in a church. Sure, some people find priests to get around that, but those are the norms.

Your choice to exchange vows in a Catholic setting is not arbitrary or selfish. It reflects what you are doing…becoming a Catholic couple. You are Catholic. You’re getting married. There’s going to be a priest there, and it’s going to happen in a church. His parents can complain all they like, but that’s the way it is.

I know you’re the anti-bridezilla, but sometimes brides and grooms just have to say, “We thought about all the alternatives, and we decided this is the best/easiest/simplist/most-us way to go.” In the end, that is the answer that both of your families will have to live with.

When my husband and I got married, we went the other way. I was ready to not have Mass, and he said, “Your family will miss it and blame me, and face it, you’ll miss it, too.” He knew me. He was right. I’m glad we got married during Mass.

In your heart, you know what you two will wish you had done, if there had been no one else preventing you. Well, no one else is really preventing you. In the end, it is your choice, the first choice of your marriage. Be true to yourselves as you make it, whatever you decide. Don’t take anything we’re writing here as evidence that we think we know you better than you do. The Church has boundaries, but within those boundaries, it really is your choice.

 

[EasterJoy]

Really do love this idea. He IS baptized. Not sure how we’d handle the other, but going to think on this one some more. Thanks!

I should’ve waited for you to answer before posting again!

The best of luck to you. May your wedding be the first day of a long and happy marriage!!!

PS My answers were partly selfish…someone did this at our parish, and it was very special. Think Easter Vigil, with all the newly baptized. It is such an affirmation of our marriage, but also of the part that parish life plays in all our marriages. It was also a statement about what the really important part of a wedding is. I still feel indebted to that bride and groom.

 

[EasterJoy]

Really do love this idea. He IS baptized. Not sure how we’d handle the other, but going to think on this one some more. Thanks!

My answers were partly selfish…someone did this at our parish, and it was very special. Think Easter Vigil, with all the newly baptized. It is such an affirmation of our marriage, but also of the part that parish life plays in all our marriages. It was also a statement about what the really important part of a wedding is. I still feel indebted to that bride and groom.

 

[Bleumyst]

I should’ve waited for you to answer before posting again!

The best of luck to you. May your wedding be the first day of a long and happy marriage!!!

Actually, I’m glad you didn’t. There was never a question of this happening anywhere but in the church, but an actual Mass is where the troubles will begin on the family front.

Even so, we’re very active in our choir, who comprise all of our Catholic friends and support system. Knowing them, and us, I find this idea very appealing. Tricky, but appealing. You’re extra words have given me an extra nudge.

Thanks again!!

 

[bpbasilphx]

** I’ve attended several such ceremonies and still find them to be “more” than I really want.**

**Don’t forget something.

This is NOT your wedding.

It’s the CHURCH’S wedding service, and it’s being bestowed upon you and your intended.

Now, I’m sure that everything can be as scaled down as circumstances warrant.

But why would you not want a Mass?

It could still be celebrated fairly quietly and privately.**

 

[Bleumyst]

** I’ve attended several such ceremonies and still find them to be “more” than I really want.**

**Don’t forget something.

This is NOT your** wedding.

It’s the CHURCH’S wedding service, and it’s being bestowed upon you and your intended.

Now, I’m sure that everything can be as scaled down as circumstances warrant.

But why would you not want a Mass?

It could still be celebrated fairly quietly and privately.

The rite is the Church’s to determine, I agree. However, we are not inanimate recipient’s, but living vessels. And participation, our participation, is needed for the the sacrament as much as the rite is needed. So it is also ours.

I don’t want a full Mass because it would be impossible to ensure that the meaning of the Eucharist is duly appreciated. I think the Holy Father’s quote above demonstrates that the Church shares my concern.

Even in a scaled down version, his parents must be included as charity requires. Their presence alone ensures there is not only a missing appreciation, but a hostile (to the Church) presence. We will have a lifetime of masses together, but on this occasion, an intimate, solemnly joyful conferring of the rite, as simply as can be done, seems much more wise not only in the moment but for the future.

As I stated, I’m more than willing to defer to whatever the Church requires. I was simply trying to determine what is required and what is traditionally included, but not necessary. Happily, I’ve found everyone helpful and my questions well answered.

 

[dixieagle]

** I’ve attended several such ceremonies and still find them to be “more” than I really want.**

**Don’t forget something.

This is NOT your** wedding.

It’s the CHURCH’S wedding service, and it’s being bestowed upon you and your intended.

Now, I’m sure that everything can be as scaled down as circumstances warrant.

But why would you not want a Mass?

It could still be celebrated fairly quietly and privately.

Gotta disagree a little with this. It is, in fact, the couple that “bestows” the sacrament on each other:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

*1623 According to Latin tradition, the spouses, as ministers of Christ’s grace, mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent of the spouses,NT1 but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.NT2 *

The priest or deacon is the Church’s official witness:

***1630 **The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a marriage receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church’s minister (and also of the witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that marriage is an ecclesial reality.
*

Just want to be clear on this.

 

[Bleumyst]

Pretty sure we’re meaning the same thing, even if we aren’t articulating it the same way. The point being, it isn’t the Church acting in isolation, therefore she cannot be the sole owner of the actual sacrament. You had originally said it was the Church bestowing it, as if we had no place in the process. That was the springboard for my comment.

You do actually need both the proper form and the couple’s free and active participation in order for it to be valid. Which, of course, is what you just quoted.

Peace
.

 

[dixieagle]

Pretty sure we’re meaning the same thing, even if we aren’t articulating it the same way. The point being, it isn’t the Church acting in isolation, therefore she cannot be the sole owner of the actual sacrament. You had originally said it was the Church bestowing it, as if we had no place in the process. That was the springboard for my comment.

You do actually need both the proper form and the couple’s free and active participation in order for it to be valid. Which, of course, is what you just quoted.

Peace
.

Not sure if you thought you were replying to me or to the previous poster who actually talked about the Church “bestowing” the sacrament (to whom I had actually replied.)

Clearly, you have an accurate grasp of the Church’s view of the sacrament. I wish you and your fiance well (and well understand about the various factions that feel entitled to weigh in on YOUR wedding plans, having had a daughter marry a few months back…)

Best wishes!

 

[Bleumyst]

Dixieagle - I think I did get the two posts confused. Sorry 'bout that!

Thanks for the good wishes!

 

[bpbasilphx]

**Gotta disagree a little with this. It is, in fact, the couple that “bestows” the sacrament on each other:

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:**

**Noit in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

And it’s still the Church’s wedding service.**