A nude Picture

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billcu1 said:
I admit the guy in me likes calendar girls too. But these pics do not stimulate intelligence. I live with my mother and I keep and SI swimsuit calendar that I write apointments on. It has no bearing on my question and I don’t think I see harmony,radiance,and wholeness.
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I’m guessing mom won’t buy the “stimulates intelligence” explanation. that’s a factor, insofar as she represents an average cross-section of women you should take heed.

I had some expensive prints of ballerina Irina Dvorovenko declared pornographic by a woman. one learns to pick one’s fights.
 
Fairwinds said:
I’m guessing mom won’t buy the “stimulates intelligence” explanation. that’s a factor, insofar as she represents an average cross-section of women you should take heed.

I had some expensive prints of ballerina Irina Dvorovenko declared pornographic by a woman. one learns to pick one’s fights.
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This is about thomistic and Aristotlean Asthetics. Maybe Teleology. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not trolling. dftt
 
billcu1 said:
This is about thomistic and Aristotlean Asthetics. Maybe Teleology. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not trolling. dftt
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can’t help you then. this all seems more like Ovid’s* Pygmalion* than Aristotle.

if you’re still wondering what porn is, I agree with Potter Stewart in Jacobellis.
 
billcu1 said:
I apreciate the responses so far but no one has actually taken up the definition of “beauty”. I will ask, what is wholeness, radiance and harmony? Is this found in the human body? If so I think it would be beyond lust and fetishes and such things.
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Can you provide a contemporary example of nudity in publication today that shows the dignity of the person? I still watch the fine arts and the popular media, including photography. Art is a communications medium. For the fine arts, students are brainwashed to believe that the incomprehensible or the distorted has value. For the illustrator, what are his options?

Seriously, anything one might call artistic depictions of the nude has no legitimate outlet today and, in fact, no legitimate use. A painting or photo of a nude. So what? Painters and photographers have to eat so where does their work end up? What sells? What do clients want? As far as I can tell, the blatantly exploitive, fetishistic and pornographic.

The nude human body is not, itself, sinful, but context is everything.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Can you provide a contemporary example of nudity in publication today that shows the dignity of the person? I still watch the fine arts and the popular media, including photography. Art is a communications medium. For the fine arts, students are brainwashed to believe that the incomprehensible or the distorted has value. For the illustrator, what are his options?

Seriously, anything one might call artistic depictions of the nude has no legitimate outlet today and, in fact, no legitimate use. A painting or photo of a nude. So what? Painters and photographers have to eat so where does their work end up? What sells? What do clients want? As far as I can tell, the blatantly exploitive, fetishistic and pornographic.

The nude human body is not, itself, sinful, but context is everything.

Peace,
Ed
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I believe the presence in this pic of the window. The pose of the woman which was simply looking out of the window and the presence of the table. A simple table that looked like it was in use. Contributed to the harmony prehaps wholeness of this image. It’s the first pic of a nude that ever stimulated me not sexually but intelligently. I am very glad I ran into it. Maybe beauty is relative. As you say Ed context is everything.
 
billcu1 said:
I believe the presence in this pic of the window. The pose of the woman which was simply looking out of the window and the presence of the table. A simple table that looked like it was in use. Contributed to the harmony prehaps wholeness of this image. It’s the first pic of a nude that ever stimulated me not sexually but intelligently. I am very glad I ran into it. Maybe beauty is relative. As you say Ed context is everything.
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Have you ever looked up the paintings in the sistine chapel? I’m just curious, because you say this it he first nude that has stimulated you intellectually rather than sexually. Maybe if you looked at some of those that could help, we know that those paintings are not considered pornography. I mean, obviously if a person is crude and lustful enough they could still look at such paintings and use them to incite lust, but there is something about the paintings in the sistine chapel which makes it so that they are not ordered towards lust, but rather simple beauty. From what you have described of this painting so far it seems very likely to me that there is nothing wrong with it at all, but it is hard to know without seeing it. The question about what is beauty is also a very interesting question. I feel as though beauty is ultimately objective, in that God is beauty itself, and that anything on earth here is only beautiful insofar as it participates in that. However, different aspects of beauty itself appeal to different people, and that allows for a certain subjective element as well. I can’t help too much in explaining what wholeness radiance and harmony would mean exactly, but it is a very interesting topic to discuss. I will definitely spend some time thinking about it. 🙂
 
thewanderer said:
… but there is something about the paintings in the sistine chapel which makes it so that they are not ordered towards lust, but rather simple beauty. …)
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they’re ugly. no, seriously, they’re ugly. seriously ugly.
 
billcu1 said:
I believe the presence in this pic of the window. The pose of the woman which was simply looking out of the window and the presence of the table. A simple table that looked like it was in use. Contributed to the harmony prehaps wholeness of this image. It’s the first pic of a nude that ever stimulated me not sexually but intelligently. I am very glad I ran into it. Maybe beauty is relative. As you say Ed context is everything.
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Most of my friends are artists and writers. Beauty is not relative. Any person that has mastered the craft of drawing an accurate human likeness will tell you that. And any very good book about painting will tell you the same thing. There are certain proportions that are universal and considered ideal. Even children understand that to the extent that they are able.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
…There are certain proportions that are universal and considered ideal. …
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yeah? and what are those? something along the lines of those bloated figures in the sistine chapel? rubens? marilyn monroe? twiggy?
 
billcu1 said:
What do you mean? As an artist that the female body is more interesting than the male? This might help me understand beauty and lust so I can see them and appreciate beauty and avoid lust. The ultimate goal. I understand as you say you have no lesbian tendancies. You could probably really help me understand the two. Lust Vs Beauty. In all things including the human body.
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I think there is a reason that normal human beings find the opposite sex attractive. That is what God intended, don’t you think? I do agree with some people posting here that the culture has taken something meant to be truly beautiful & turned it into something perverse. Surely this beauty was meant to be shared only by people married to each other. But we will always have people “real artists” who want/need to express the beauty of creation, maybe they are trying to look at the world through the eyes of God?
 
Fairwinds said:
they’re ugly. no, seriously, they’re ugly. seriously ugly.
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I guess I see what you mean. I think the women painted in the Chapel are not beautiful women. Maybe they were, years back… but the “ideal look” has changed into a thinner, more cut physique. (Though I do think the men in the paintings still look good.)

Regardless, the paintings themselves are still very very beautiful and amazing works of art, even if the people in them aren’t necessarily pretty.
 
Debora123 said:
I guess I see what you mean. I think the women painted in the Chapel are not beautiful women. Maybe they were, years back… but the “ideal look” has changed into a thinner, more cut physique. (Though I do think the men in the paintings still look good.)

Regardless, the paintings themselves are still very very beautiful and amazing works of art, even if the people in them aren’t necessarily pretty.
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I agree (comments about men excepted, I didn’t really notice). its a fantastic piece of work.

as I pointed out before… Rubens … Lauren Bacall … Marilyn Monroe … Twiggy … the ideal look changes.
 
Patti_M said:
I think there is a reason that normal human beings find the opposite sex attractive. That is what God intended, don’t you think? I do agree with some people posting here that the culture has taken something meant to be truly beautiful & turned it into something perverse. Surely this beauty was meant to be shared only by people married to each other. But we will always have people “real artists” who want/need to express the beauty of creation, maybe they are trying to look at the world through the eyes of God?
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Great post! 👍

I don’t necessarily think nude photography always automatically equals pornography just because the people aren’t wearing clothes.
 
Fairwinds said:
they’re ugly. no, seriously, they’re ugly. seriously ugly.
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I myself don’t believe there is an ugly. Only beauty and a lack of it. It is a virtue you have or don’t have. There is not ugliness.
 
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