J
JRKH
Guest
First let me apologize for yet another thread on this topic, but these passages struck me as most interesting, especially as they are from our Dear Savior’s own mouth.
Below are a couple of passages from Matthew’s Gospel, Chapter 18.
They struck me as a rather significant passages. Plus they are both quite well known.
First we have:
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 "When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26 "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying,
What struck me in this one is, that Jesus is likening the kingdom of heaven to this situation and in that kingdom the Master (Our Heavenly Father) forgave a slave (a follower and believer in the master) who pleaded for time and forgiveness. The master not only gave the slave more time to pay, but actually forgave the debt. This Slave then went out and committed an offence (Sin) against his master by not forgiving his fellow slave who pleaded with him. The Master then reinstated the debt and punished the slave.
Thus we have one who pleaded and obtained mercy from the Lord, but then later committed sin and was condemned by the same Lord as a result of the sin committed AFTER he had been forgiven.
The other even more well known and staightforward passage is the sheep and shepard:
12 "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
What I noted in this is that the stray sheep was already a part of the flock, but had wandered off and gotten lost. After all a sheep that was not originally part of the flock cannot wander off and become lost. The shepard does go and look for the lost one, but note that in verse 13 it says, “If it turns out that he finds it…”, not “When he finds it…”
So what is the result if it turns out that He NOT find it? The lost sheep is either devoured by the beasts, or dies lost and alone and apart from the shepard.
These two passages seem to me to be quite contrary to the idea of once saved always saved. I would be interested in others opinions on these passages. Agree - or - disagree.
Peace
James
Below are a couple of passages from Matthew’s Gospel, Chapter 18.
They struck me as a rather significant passages. Plus they are both quite well known.
First we have:
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24 "When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26 "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying,
Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.' 27 "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28 "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, Pay back what you owe.’ 29 "So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, Have patience with me and I will repay you.' 30 "But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31 "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 "Then summoning him, his lord said to him, You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 `Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 “My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”What struck me in this one is, that Jesus is likening the kingdom of heaven to this situation and in that kingdom the Master (Our Heavenly Father) forgave a slave (a follower and believer in the master) who pleaded for time and forgiveness. The master not only gave the slave more time to pay, but actually forgave the debt. This Slave then went out and committed an offence (Sin) against his master by not forgiving his fellow slave who pleaded with him. The Master then reinstated the debt and punished the slave.
Thus we have one who pleaded and obtained mercy from the Lord, but then later committed sin and was condemned by the same Lord as a result of the sin committed AFTER he had been forgiven.
The other even more well known and staightforward passage is the sheep and shepard:
12 "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 "If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
What I noted in this is that the stray sheep was already a part of the flock, but had wandered off and gotten lost. After all a sheep that was not originally part of the flock cannot wander off and become lost. The shepard does go and look for the lost one, but note that in verse 13 it says, “If it turns out that he finds it…”, not “When he finds it…”
So what is the result if it turns out that He NOT find it? The lost sheep is either devoured by the beasts, or dies lost and alone and apart from the shepard.
These two passages seem to me to be quite contrary to the idea of once saved always saved. I would be interested in others opinions on these passages. Agree - or - disagree.
Peace
James
