A peaceful man that Muhammad was

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Montalban said:
Netiher. He’s part of a group that both Sunni and Shi’a don’t even consider to be Islamic
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Oh well, I guess he is a heretic muslim, so I shouldn’t even listen to him if I ever wanted to become muslim. Not that I ever would.😃
 
obadiah said:
Oh well, I guess he is a heretic muslim, so I shouldn’t even listen to him if I ever wanted to become muslim. Not that I ever would.😃
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This is a problem I had when I first deal with him. He’d come into the threads and say “Islam belives this…” and then go on about his own beliefs. I likened it to a Mormon giving his own views as if they’re normative Chrisitan beliefs.
 
Montalban said:
This is a problem I had when I first deal with him. He’d come into the threads and say “Islam belives this…” and then go on about his own beliefs. I likened it to a Mormon giving his own views as if they’re normative Chrisitan beliefs.
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Quite true. I continue to say to him Salam Ma-aqum. Peace be to you.
I have to go to sleep. God bless you Montalban.
 
Montalban said:
This is a problem I had when I first deal with him. He’d come into the threads and say “Islam belives this…” and then go on about his own beliefs. I likened it to a Mormon giving his own views as if they’re normative Chrisitan beliefs.
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Hi

I mention from Quran/Islam/Muhammad, what I have to do with the present politicians. Man the roots are important, you know, you get nothing in your support there.

Thanks
 
Muhammad got folks to pull in fewer conflicting directions to conquer lands and peoples.

Nothing godly about that.

Not much has changed.
 
richardwy said:
Muhammad got folks to pull in fewer conflicting directions to conquer lands and peoples.

Nothing godly about that.

Not much has changed.
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Notice another thread started by the same serial spammer on the same topic.
 
I can’t speak for Mohammad’s life as a whole since I have not studied him in depth, but I can at least show you his opinion towards Christians…

mirnazim.wordpress.com/2006/10/22/prophet-muhammads-letter-to-christians/

Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine Monastery
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”
 
A Letter from the Prophet Muhammad To The Assyrian Christians
Code: 
 “God has told me in a vision what to do, and I confirm His command by giving my solemn promise to keep this agreement.  To the followers of the Islam I say: Carry out my command, protect and help the Nazarene nation in this country of ours in their own land. Leave their places of worship in peace; help and assist their chief and their priests when in need of help, be it in the mountains, in the desert, on the sea, or at home. Leave all their possessions alone, be it houses or other property, do not destroy anything of their belongings, the followers of Islam shall not harm or molest any of this nation, because the Nazarenes are my subjects, pay tribute to me and will help the Muslims. No tribute, but what is agreed upon, shall be collected from them, their church buildings shall be left as they are, they shall not be altered, their priests shall be permitted to teach and worship in their own way-the Nazarenes have full liberty of worship in their churches and homes. None of their churches shall be torn down, or altered into a mosque, except by the consent and free will of the Nazarenes. If any one disobeys this command, the anger of God and His Prophet shall be upon him.

 “The tribute paid the Nazarenes shall be used to promote the teachings of Islam and shall be deposited at the treasury of Beth Almal. A common man shall pay one denar (piece of money), but the merchants and people who own mines of gold and silver and are rich shall pay twelve denars. Strangers and people who have no houses or other settled property shall not have taxes levied upon them. If a man inherits property he shall pay a settled sum to the Baitulmal treasury. The Christians are not obliged to make war on the enemies of Islam, but if an enemy attacks the Christians, the Muslims shall not deny their help, but give them horses and weapons, if they need them, and protect them from evils from outside and keep the peace with them. The Christians are not obliged to turn Muslims, until God’s will makes them believers.  “The Muslims shall not force Christian women to accept Islam, but if they themselves wish to embrace it, the Muslims shall be kind to them.  “If a Christian woman is married to a Muslim and does not want to embrace Islam, she has liberty to worship at her own church according to her own religious belief, and her husband must not treat her unkindly on account of her religion. If any one disobeys this command, he disobeys God and his prophet and will be guilty of a great offense.  “If the Nazarenes wish to build a church, their Muslim neighbors shall help them. This shall be done, because the Christians have obeyed us and have come to us and pleaded for peace and mercy.  “If there be among the Christians a great and learned man the Muslims shall honor him and not be envious of his greatness.  “If any one is unjust and unkind to the Christians he will be guilty of disobeying the Prophet of God.

 “The Christians should not shelter an enemy of Islam or give him horse, weapon or any other help. If a Muslim is in need the Christian shall for three days and nights be his host and shelter him from his enemies. The Christians shall, furthermore, protect the Mohammedan women and children and not deliver them up to the enemy or expose them to view. If the Nazarenes fail to fulfil these conditions, they have forfeited their right to protection, and the agreement is null and void.  “This document shall be entrusted to the Christian chief and head of their church for safe keeping.”  The peace of God be over them all! This agreement is written by Moavijah Ben Sofian, according to the dictates of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, in the 4th year of the Hegira in the city of Medina.
 
jerry_j_1980 said:
I can’t speak for Mohammad’s life as a whole since I have not studied him in depth, but I can at least show you his opinion towards Christians…

mirnazim.wordpress.com/2006/10/22/prophet-muhammads-letter-to-christians/

Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine Monastery
Code: 
 “This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.  Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”
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I cant agree with you on this im afraid.
I can also tell you if a Catholic or any Christian denomination marries a Muslim, they have to obey their husband, which means if her husband does not want her to celebrate Christmas, Easter, Weddings or any other Catholic celebration, he can stop her from going according to the laws of Islam.
 
dolphinlove said:
I cant agree with you on this im afraid.
I can also tell you if a Catholic or any Christian denomination marries a Muslim, they have to obey their husband, which means if her husband does not want her to celebrate Christmas, Easter, Weddings or any other Catholic celebration, he can stop her from going according to the laws of Islam.
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Maybe some Muslims believe that, but many of them don’t (My boss is Muslim and his wife is Catholic and both she and her son go to church and he allows his son to be raised Catholic)

Plus this letter is Mohammad, this is not a letter speaking for all Muslims of all ages.
 
That may be what he said, maybe not, but if it was thats not whats going on in the Islamic world today anywhere…its a lie.
 
jerry_j_1980 said:
Maybe some Muslims believe that, but many of them don’t (My boss is Muslim and his wife is Catholic and both she and her son go to church and he allows his son to be raised Catholic)
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He’s an exception. It’s actually against Islamic law for him to do this
jerry_j_1980 said:
Plus this letter is Mohammad, this is not a letter speaking for all Muslims of all ages.
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Moslems believe Muhammed is an example for all men for all time.
 
jerry_j_1980 said:
And where can I find this definitive “muslim law”?

In that case his 2 letters are good examples, no?
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Jerry, is that letter the only example you have read and came to the conclusion Mohammed is a good man?
How much research have you done on Mohammed?
 
jerry_j_1980 said:
And where can I find this definitive “muslim law”?
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Well there is none. However we can find agreement to certain things across Moslem schools of thought.

It should be based on Koran (first) and Hadith (second).

For example the idea about Moslems and non-Moslems can be found in the Koran…
Koran
5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya’ (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya’ to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya’, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).

And here’s a Moslem site, and how they interpret it…
It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng

Here they are again in response to another question…
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng

Here’s a different site that sincerly believes all non-Muslims are condemned, so friendship requires the invitation to Islam.
Since you have feelings of concern for your friends, why don;’t you give them Da’awah (invitation) to Islam. It is stated in the Hadith that ‘A true friend is he who invites his friend to the straight path, i.e. towards Islam, good deeds, charity, etc.’ Make lots of du’aa for your non-Muslim friends that Allah grant them the wealth of Imaan and that they realise the truth from falsehood.
islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12410

Again the issue of being freinds for the purposes of conversion arises…
" Islam is the religion of tolerance, ease and flexibility, and at the same time, it is the religion of justice. Hospitality is a part of Islaamic good manners, but if the guest is a disbeliever, then the ruling differs according to the different intention of the host and the different types of hospitality he offers him. If his intention is legitimate, based upon his desire to create harmony between himself and the disbeliever, so that he may call him to Islaam and save him from kufr and misguidance, then his intention is honourable."
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0020111_1.htm

You’re not even considered a ‘brother’ of a Muslim
"Question: Does not brotherhood extend to all of mankind because it is established that Aadam was the forefather of everyone?
Response: This is not so. There is no doubt that everyone is from the offspring of Aadam but we do not say, “This is my brother,” when referring to a disbeliever meaning by that within the brotherhood of man. We can only refer to him as brother when there is a relationship by descent or lineage.
fatwa-online.com/fataawa/muslimminorities/0000920_5.htm
jerry_j_1980 said:
In that case his 2 letters are good examples, no?
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As above one needs more information.
 
jerry_j_1980 said:
In that case his 2 letters are good examples, no?
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It’s a well known fact amongst we Islamic scholars 🙂 that Muhammed made treaty exceptions with the Copts in Egypt and specific institutions, such as the Monastary at Mount Sinai.

One of his wives, Mary the Copt manged to wrestle from him concessions to her own church. And the Assyrian Christians would serve as useful allies against the Roman Empire - as they were not part of the Catholo-Orthodox Church.

Unfortunately these letters of ‘protection’ weren’t universally applied to all Christians.

It does show Islam was capable of co-existence. Unfortunately this was not the norm
 
An extremist sheikh believes the letter to St Catherine is a Christian fraud.

obmonline.net/index.php?cmd=3&path=Fatwas/The%20Islamic%20Verdict%20on%20Interfaith.htm&hd_elm=2&depth=2
  1. The Christians fabricated the document of Saint Catherine, which is displayed on the wall in a place of worship on Sinai Mountain. Under the pretext that St. Catherine was a believer, according to the letter, they called for interfaith and joint prayers.
This is also what the good sheikh says on jihad:

It is very strange how Muslims have given up the obligation of preparing for jihaad. This will lead to the assassination of jihaad and to the burial of it. They already interpret jihaad as defensive and jizyah other than as submission to the law of Islam. Now they call jihaad terrorism and the people run away from it. Muslims do not even want to mention the word jihaad, let alone perform the obligation of taking jizyah from non-Muslims. The obligation of jizyah on Jews and Christian, if they do not embrace Islam, is a sign of the dignity of the Muslims and a sign of submission of the unbelievers to Islam.
 
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