A Penitential Group for the Weak, Unfit, Indebted

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danhager

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Hi, I’m a married man with three kids and a wife. I want a life of deeper prayer and study of the Bible, and without comforts and indulgence. I have a bad history of bad habits with the internet. I need to seek God’s face. If you are like me, then earlier in life when you were expected to discern for the priesthood or religious life, you did, and were told “you’ve got maturity issues”. That was accurate, and it was good to hear, but maybe you sulked anyway. I did. But I also got no guidance on how to build up discipline and maturity.
Now I’m forty three, and I have no future in the hierarchy of any other Church institution. But I want to be holy. Is there anyone here, man or woman, who wants to talk about a dream for a group designed to help build up the unfit and the unwell? A group which has no ministry or apostolate other than prayer and no provisions for the flesh? No canonical status, no vows, no prestige, religious habits, or pretenses. It would be like alcoholics anonymous, but for any weakness or spiritual vice, to walk more closely with Jesus, with the intercession of Mary, for the glory of God.
 
Intriguing. Do you have a vision for exactly how you would “build up the unfit and the unwell”? Have you talked with anyone like a priest or spiritual director about your ideas?
 
I want to encourage the most basic and time tested method for building up the weak: more prayer, more silence, drawing from the well of deeper Bible reading. The simplest method for this that I’ve ever seen is what I saw at the Prince of Peace Abbey in Oceanside, CA. The Benedictine monks there had times set aside for the prayers of the Church, the Mass, and either Bible study or spiritual reading. They also had big chunks of time set aside for private prayer.
The point wouldn’t be to emulate monks. But sacrificing time out of one’s day for prayer, a half hour, an hour, two hours, which would entail giving up legitimate pleasures like socializing, watching TV, or video games, novels, etc, would make it legitimately penitential. This could be done in most busy lives, though not to the same extent in a family life.
All of this would take place in a parish setting, with as little reinvention of the wheel as possible. The group would function as a means of evaluating ones trajectory in this intentional kind of life, and encouraging persistence in prayer.
I feel that this kind of life could be practiced among small groups of single people who want to deepen prayer, but for whom the religious life would not be appropriate or helpful.
I’ve not broached the subject with a priest or spiritual director.
 
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You say you don’t want to reinvent the wheel, which is a good thing. Have you looked at what the church already has to offer in terms of groups who meet together to support one another? Honestly, what you describe sounds a bit like a third order. If you are attached to the abbey and Benedictine spirituality, have you considered Benedictine Oblates? Something about it also sounds vaguely like Opus Dei - prayer, penance, and study. Might be time to mention your thoughts to your priest. You might find your diocese has a group that fits your needs.

I don’t know, but I wish you much success.
 
I, too, send best wishes and prayers for the success of your endeavor. As always, the best advice starts with your parish priest. If there are no local avenues, perhaps your priest can suggest someone in the diocesan offices who might know of others who are similarly inclined.

Maybe starting such a group is intended for you? More power to you!
 
When you say weak and unfit, were you speaking spiritually or physically? Also to mention, and hopefully not offending, the importance and holiness of the vocation of being both husband and father. Hierarchally, if that’s a word, your at the top as it were.
Where do you live, obvs not your actual address , and which parish are you connected to?
 
danhager said:
more prayer, more silence, drawing from the well of deeper Bible reading
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I think this is always good advice, but I do believe the human dimension is important as well: we operate best within a human group.

Back when the Church was in the neighborhood and pretty much everyone in the neighborhood was Catholic, Catholicism infused everything. If a friend gave advice, it would be Catholic advice.

Now that is not how it is. Everything is secular and psychological.
 
I think if you use the search string terms penitent + third order, some things will come up that might interest you. The Catholic Church is for sinners. The sainthood part comes a little later on. If you were not a sinner you would not need the Catholic Church.

A third order is a nice fit for a situation like yours. [very much like mine!] Failing to do prescribed prayer time etc. is not under the pain of sin. Keep looking, I think you are on the right road.
 
We all have a spiritual journey to be Christ, in His Holiness. The Third Order of Franciscans is like that. Becoming a Deacon of the church brings that person to more Holiness. You are married. She needs to be on board. The family has needs. You are it’s head. Your first responsibility, is to your families Holiness & church participation. As you become more like St. Joseph, as caring for your family in Holiness, you will b/c more Holy. Pray the Rosary as a family at night.
We attain more Holiness as we pull away from the world. Don’t pull away from your family
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice.
 
This is known as a private lay association of the faithful without the intention of becoming an Institute of Religious Life.

It’s also embodying what the Catechism states is the greatest penance of all – Daily Duty. Our Lady of Fatima made reference to this in her messages.

While I’m grateful for your “conversion,” please get a spiritual director to keep the zeal under control.

Blessings,
Mrs Cloisters, O.P.
Lay Dominican
http://cloisters.tripod.com/charity/
http://cloisters.tripod.com/
 
Yes, third orders, Legion of Mary, monastic oblates, Regnum Christi, Opus Dei, etc. All of these and more are examples of how it can be done. The problem for me is in how they handle leadership and inclusion. There is always an initiation and acceptance process with these groups, because as small and relatively inconsequential as they are, they are orders of the Church with vows, or promises, and status in the Church. They can become little fiefdoms. People can boast of being one, to other Catholics. No one else cares. They can let some in and keep others out. There are other problems. If you are not near a monastery, can you be an oblate? Not likely. If there is no Third Order near you, or no priest willing to sponsor the group, which I have seen, can you join it? No.
Meanwhile, AA groups are everywhere, meeting with or without sponsors or facilitators, and doing much good with no fanfare. No one at all boasts of being in AA, they just go. I’d like that, but for people who have trouble with the spiritual life.
 
Thanks, absolutely my marriage to my wife and my fathership of my children are my vocation first and foremost!
I see the “vocation” process as being limited, for practical reasons, to trying to find physically well, psychologically sound, sexually mature (true, responsible adulthood), ministerially viable candidates who can staff the institutions of the Catholic Church. We do need these men and women, of course, to be leaders and workers. But many of us are not all of these things, or even many of these things, and our vocations are likely simply to follow Christ in His Church, as married or single people. While not discounting the need for psychological help and counseling, I think that most Christians would benefit from learning to spend more time with God in prayer.
I’m in Raleigh, NC, and I’m at St. Francis of Assisi parish.
 
Good point. The generic advice is psychological, but I’d like it to be more prayer
 
I am not against psychological advice --except when it replaces advice for holiness–, don’t get me wrong, but I see a lot of secular advice as being sort of self-serving: how can I get what I want? As opposed to how can I become more holy?

To continue your analogy with AA, most people can live lives with or without alcohol but some people can’t do either and need to learn the mechanics of living without alcohol, like what do you do after work? Or how do you handle a problem when alcohol used to be the solution?

I sometimes feel like I am missing how to practically apply growing in holiness in my life. So if I have a problem with a family member, sure, I pray for that person, but… maybe I could talk with her? How best to do that? Maybe the problem is me and not her? And so on.

I have the impression that we used to have a more developed Catholic life, but that that stopped being passed down so a lot of people nowadays are trying to reinvent the wheel. It would be so much easier of we could get together and do it!
 
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danhager said:
The problem for me is in how they handle leadership and inclusion. There is always an initiation and acceptance process with these groups, because as small and relatively inconsequential as they are, they are orders of the Church with vows, or promises, and status in the Church. They can become little fiefdoms.
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I will only encourage you again to speak with your pastor on this. There are other kinds of groups within the church that don’t have an initiation and acceptance process. Private associations of the faithful as Cloisters mentioned. Bible study groups. Prayer groups.
 
I hear you. Our “solutions” are entirely materialistic these days, in keeping with our relentless self reliance. That’s why I think the AA analogy works: an alcoholic has no track record of self reliance, only failure. God’s power is made perfect in weakness.
When you read Paul’s letters, notice how he speaks to very ordinary, and often spectacularly weak people. He speaks to them like a father. He knows they are being built up in Christ to full stature. We have that same assurance!
But we need to drink deeply from the life giving waters. Like recovering addicts, we need to plan our day carefully. How do we handle our free time? Do we offer a generous portion of it back to God? I think prayer as dialogue with God is strengthened by reading the Bible- and that’s not my idea. It’s called Lectio Divina, and we working people can practice it in smaller amounts of time than monks or nuns can give.
I wish I could know what to say to my friends and relatives, too, sometimes. We need prayer with God before we can talk about God with our neighbor, though.
 
Oh yes, I can’t forget Bible studies. I love those. I’ll have to talk to my Pastor.
 
danhager said:
Oh yes, I can’t forget Bible studies. I love those. I’ll have to talk to my Pastor.
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Yes. And, a bible study group might be the perfect fit for what you are after. Who will lead it? Do you feel up to the challenge? Do you know anyone who can help you? How often will you meet? All things to consider and discuss with your pastor.
 
I am crazy about a Bible Study that I just began. Peter Kreeft’s deep dive on the Gospel of John called “Probes”. It is set up so anyone can be a facilitator!!
 
That’s a great idea! But the way most Bible Studies are structured is as a meeting, which people can attend, which is supported by course materials. This is great for comprehension and, if there are reflection questions, applying lessons from the scriptures to your life. This is part of the normal path of discipleship in a parish. But what I have in mind is more like a prayer group. It would attempt to use the Bible as a springboard to silent prayer and adoration.
 
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