A pep talk for single guys

[MarcoPolo]

Well, don’t make it sound like it’s the woman’s fault.

Listen, a woman really is not going to go out with a man (certainly long-term) that she is not attracted to.

So many guys miss this it’s insane.

A guy just cannot ask a girl out of the blue, even if he knows her. HE needs to ELEVATE himself in her eyes by communicating with her ROMANTICALLY.

If he does not do this, the woman’s automatic response will often be NO even if she might consider being interested.

This is where our stereotypical “nice guy” gets all awkward and it’s an avalanche from there.

And I suspect the compensation for that is “well, she only wants jerks”.

Asking someone out does not entitle a person to a date.

There are guys who do everything you say here and still get rejected.

 

[Xantippe]

This is good advice, but it should not be seen as some sort of silver bullet. Plenty of good guys are doing the asking, suggesting the kind of date, etc… and some girls still find reasons to say no.

That’s why the guy has to keep asking and working on himself, so that he eventually asks a woman who is interested in him or willing to give him a chance.

 

[pianistclare]

There are guys who do everything you say here and still get rejected.

Well, there are people who sit in the pew each week and still don’t get the Gospel message.

The question is "do they really WANT a companion in life? Or do they just think that is what is expected?
Like the pew sitters. Punch my card…lemme outa here.

Just throwing that out there…

 

[Xantippe]

There are guys who do everything you say here and still get rejected.

Imagine a Venn diagram with two circles (hopefully intersecting):

1. Women that I am interested in.
2. Women that are interested in me.

There will be women that you are interested that aren’t interested in you as well as women that are interested in you that you aren’t interested in.

Your mission in dating is to discover the women who are in both categories (who are interested in you and that you are interested in). And yes, that is a lot of work.

 

[Estevao]

I’m pretty sure I’d get banned if I talked about “frivolous bimbos” (to use Matt Walsh’s expression) the way the “nice guys” get bashed on here.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m pretty sure I’d get banned if I talked about “frivolous bimbos” (to use Matt Walsh’s expression) the way the “nice guys” get bashed on here.

So, have you asked anybody out in the last 90 days?

 

[Estevao]

So, have you asked anybody out in the last 90 days?

Once. No dice.

 

[Xantippe]

I’m pretty sure I’d get banned if I talked about “frivolous bimbos” (to use Matt Walsh’s expression) the way the “nice guys” get bashed on here.

Some study questions:

Do you find bad girls “exciting” and good girls “boring” and/or just plain invisible? Is it the case that the worse a woman treats you, the more you want her?

Do all young women look basically the same to you, and do you have no idea which ones can keep a confidence, which ones have a good work ethic, which ones will bring a sick friend a care package, and which ones volunteer with disabled children?

Do you have any close female friends that you don’t have any designs on?

 

[Xantippe]

Once. No dice.

Very good!

 

[Estevao]

Some study questions:

Do you find bad girls “exciting” and good girls “boring” and/or just plain invisible? Is it the case that the worse a woman treats you, the more you want her?

Do all young women look basically the same to you, and do you have no idea which ones can keep a confidence, which ones have a good work ethic, which ones will bring a sick friend a care package, and which ones volunteer with disabled children?

Do you have any close female friends that you don’t have any designs on?

These would be some good questions for men who are less forever alone than me. I’ll keep them in mind if I (or when I?) become less FA though, thanks

 

[MarcoPolo]

That’s why the guy has to keep asking and working on himself, so that he eventually asks a woman who is interested in him or willing to give him a chance.

Correct. I was only giving pause that the advice, while good, should not create unrealistic expectations. And, realistically, some people may get rejected their entire lives and that is a special cross to bear.

 

[SuperLuigi]

There are guys who do everything you say here and still get rejected.

Do they really?

I would want specific examples, because I know in a lot if not all of the cases this comment refers to, I could find room for significant improvement.

Otherwise, yeah, a guy CAN do all of the right things and still not win.

Why?

For starters, “some women just are not looking for a relationship,” as one dating coach put it.

And it can them a little while to figure out they are not ready for a serious relationship.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I’m pretty sure I’d get banned if I talked about “frivolous bimbos” (to use Matt Walsh’s expression) the way the “nice guys” get bashed on here.

uch: not for the language by any means the mentality of the comment.

This is exactly the kind of whining that will get you no-where with a quality woman.

Of course there’s a lot of women out there who wouldn’t know a great guy if they dated one for years.

But you MUST separate out “nice guy” and “great guy”. A stereotypical “nice guy” is not assertive enough to get the attraction of a worthwhile woman. In popular media, he just seems to think that after she’s run around for 20 years during and after high school with abusive, uneducated men, she’ll finally wake up and date this wimpy-looking dude who’s thin and has a sciencey job and has spent the last 25 years obsessed over her just waiting for her to realize just in time what a “nice guy” he is. :banghead:

As a scientist myself, I cannot even begin to say how insulting that is! I sure didn’t meet my wife acting like that!

Also, I’m tough on the “nice guy” mentality on here because I have to be. I’ve been giving out dating advice now for nearly 8 years and I see the same patterns over and over and over.

Plus, I USED to be that stereotypical “nice guy”. Either I didn’t get dates, or when I did, it was because the woman wanted my money or a rebound.

I have to be more fraternal on here, even tough not because women like it (I’m actually taken), but because self-pitying men don’t get the message otherwise.

It’s probably best they hear it from me or someone else on here first than after a whole series of unworthy women (as you aptly described) break their hearts in-between dating guys they are attracted to while draining “nice guy” bank accounts.

That’s the other great reward for being a “nice guy”----you’re the back-up plan. In fact, it’s a reason why some women go out of their way to keep such men in their back pockets.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Do you have any close female friends that you don’t have any designs on?

Now that I’m on a real computer I can post a longer answer.

This is a big one. I’ve noticed that all too often guys (and in situations where women are pursuing, often times women) will be friends with someone of the opposite sex with the ulterior motive of a romantic relationship. When they find out that the person isn’t interested, they lose all interest in the friendship.

As someone who has always had male friends, that behavior hurts. It really sucks to feel like you have a good friend, only to find out that as soon as they realize that you aren’t sexually and/or romantically interested in them, they walk away. That’s how you know that someone is only interested in what they can get from you, and that they never really cared for who you are as a person. And people usually get entitled about this. It’s like, “I did nice. I talked to her, listened, shared interests, and had fun with her. Now I deserve a relationship. Oh, I won’t get that? Well, then, who needs her?” is just not an attitude that makes people feel good. And if you want to look at it in purely selfish terms, it can even backfire.

For example-a couple of years ago I worked in an office building that had a security guard in the lobby. Over the course of a few months, we became buddies. We talked about the books we were reading, said hi to each other every morning, and complained about our bosses. I thought he was a really nice guy. One day, he asked me out. I said that I was sorry if he got the wrong idea, but I was engaged and not interested. He totally understood and continued to talk to me every day as though nothing had happened with no ulterior motive. In short, he showed me that he was genuine and that romance and sex aside, he was interested in relating to me as a person.

A few months later, a really sweet, cute girl started working in my office. After getting to know her a bit, I thought she might have fun with the security guard, and I put in a good word with her for him. Women trust other women, and we tend to listen when another woman vouches for a man-especially when he already seems so nice. She took my word for it, and showed a little interest. He asked her out, and 2 years later, they’re engaged. If he had blown me off after I said I was engaged, he wouldn’t be getting married right now because I would have told that girl that he was only a nice guy if he thought he could get something from a woman. But instead, I talked him up.

Think of it like networking. Even if the person you give your business card to never buys from you, they may recommend you to someone who will if they like you and if you make it clear that you are a competent professional. It’s the same thing with dating. Even if the girl you asked out doesn’t say yes, she may recommend you to someone who would be a good match for you if you show her that you’re a man who’s worth it.

And even though we no longer even live in the same state, the four of us are good friends and I can’t wait to fly out for their wedding in November.

 

[pianistclare]

Now that I’m on a real computer I can post a longer answer.

This is a big one. I’ve noticed that all too often guys (and in situations where women are pursuing, often times women) will be friends with someone of the opposite sex with the ulterior motive of a romantic relationship. When they find out that the person isn’t interested, they lose all interest in the friendship.

As someone who has always had male friends, that behavior hurts. It really sucks to feel like you have a good friend, only to find out that as soon as they realize that you aren’t sexually and/or romantically interested in them, they walk away. That’s how you know that someone is only interested in what they can get from you, and that they never really cared for who you are as a person. And people usually get entitled about this. It’s like, “I did nice. I talked to her, listened, shared interests, and had fun with her. Now I deserve a relationship. Oh, I won’t get that? Well, then, who needs her?” is just not an attitude that makes people feel good. And if you want to look at it in purely selfish terms, it can even backfire.

For example-a couple of years ago I worked in an office building that had a security guard in the lobby. Over the course of a few months, we became buddies. We talked about the books we were reading, said hi to each other every morning, and complained about our bosses. I thought he was a really nice guy. One day, he asked me out. I said that I was sorry if he got the wrong idea, but I was engaged and not interested. He totally understood and continued to talk to me every day as though nothing had happened with no ulterior motive. In short, he showed me that he was genuine and that romance and sex aside, he was interested in relating to me as a person.

A few months later, a really sweet, cute girl started working in my office. After getting to know her a bit, I thought she might have fun with the security guard, and I put in a good word with her for him. Women trust other women, and we tend to listen when another woman vouches for a man-especially when he already seems so nice. She took my word for it, and showed a little interest. He asked her out, and 2 years later, they’re engaged. If he had blown me off after I said I was engaged, he wouldn’t be getting married right now because I would have told that girl that he was only a nice guy if he thought he could get something from a woman. But instead, I talked him up.

Think of it like networking. Even if the person you give your business card to never buys from you, they may recommend you to someone who will if they like you and if you make it clear that you are a competent professional. It’s the same thing with dating. Even if the girl you asked out doesn’t say yes, she may recommend you to someone who would be a good match for you if you show her that you’re a man who’s worth it.

And even though we no longer even live in the same state, the four of us are good friends and I can’t wait to fly out for their wedding in November.

EXACTLY. Everyone has a fried, a sister, a co-worker that they can recommend. That’s exactly why you go to the bar-b-que by yourself. That’s why you go to the company party by yourself. To meet the friend of a friend.

 

[SuperLuigi]

This is a big one. I’ve noticed that all too often guys (and in situations where women are pursuing, often times women) will be friends with someone of the opposite sex with the ulterior motive of a romantic relationship. When they find out that the person isn’t interested, they lose all interest in the friendship.

I would encourage women to take that on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes, it really is for the best.

I don’t think women want some sad guy lurking around who has these pent-up feelings for her.

As someone who has always had male friends, that behavior hurts. It really sucks to feel like you have a good friend, only to find out that as soon as they realize that you aren’t sexually and/or romantically interested in them, they walk away. That’s how you know that someone is only interested in what they can get from you, and that they never really cared for who you are as a person.

That is perfectly understandable from the perspective of the woman, but trust me, the guy isn’t doing it to be mean (I’ve never seen it), he does it to protect himself.

Also, sometimes men and women in those situations cannot handle just being friends once the bomb is dropped, so to speak.

This happens in two ways:

One, like the situation with the guard that you describe very well later, where “ah, well it’s no big deal”. So this really isn’t much of a bomb.

Two: “I really REALLY like you”. This second one can really make things awkward in a hurry for one or both friends, even if the man and woman know each other really well. This is what really can catch women off guard especially if the man has not been romantically communicating with the woman. She may see it as coming out of nowhere if he hasn’t, and unlike such successful portrayals in popular Western media, it doesn’t always end well.

And people usually get entitled about this. It’s like, "I did nice. I talked to her, listened, shared interests, and had fun with her. Now I deserve a relationship. Oh, I won’t get that?

Yeah, that’s on the guy’s end to understand, and that’s a problem in today’s culture where people think they are OWED things.

You are describing that “nice guy” nonsense here again.

Well, then, who needs her?" is just not an attitude that makes people feel good.

Understandable, but the guy just may not be in a position to handle a friendship. Sometimes, the reason is justified (I know I’ve been lead on before, but had the presence of mind to change things up) but in any case it’s not worth a lot of time worrying about.

Maybe the two can be friends once the feelings cool down.

 

[SuperLuigi]

And if you want to look at it in purely selfish terms, it can even backfire.

It can, but as a guy, I can say the friendship benefits are simply not always worth it. It can hurt, especially if the woman started dating someone else and wanted to dump all of the relationship chatter/drama on the guy friend who likes you without even thinking twice that it’s killing him inside. It’s not fun to be in in that position, and I certainly would not do that to myself.

For example-a couple of years ago I worked in an office building that had a security guard in the lobby. Over the course of a few months, we became buddies. We talked about the books we were reading, said hi to each other every morning, and complained about our bosses. I thought he was a really nice guy. One day, he asked me out. I said that I was sorry if he got the wrong idea, but I was engaged and not interested. He totally understood and continued to talk to me every day as though nothing had happened with no ulterior motive. In short, he showed me that he was genuine and that romance and sex aside, he was interested in relating to me as a person.

I’m glad this worked out nicely. But the key thing here is that this fellow seemed easy-going. Some guys, especially ones with mental/social issues, may not be privy to that luxury. Others just let their feelings run away and can’t or don’t know how to handle it.

Also, he probably wasn’t dying in love with you. He may just have found the rapport he built with you good and wanted to see where it would go. Big difference if that’s the case.

A few months later, a really sweet, cute girl started working in my office. After getting to know her a bit, I thought she might have fun with the security guard, and I put in a good word with her for him. Women trust other women, and we tend to listen when another woman vouches for a man-especially when he already seems so nice. She took my word for it, and showed a little interest. He asked her out, and 2 years later, they’re engaged. If he had blown me off after I said I was engaged, he wouldn’t be getting married right now because I would have told that girl that he was only a nice guy if he thought he could get something from a woman. But instead, I talked him up.

That’s nice.

Think of it like networking. Even if the person you give your business card to never buys from you, they may recommend you to someone who will if they like you and if you make it clear that you are a competent professional. It’s the same thing with dating. Even if the girl you asked out doesn’t say yes, she may recommend you to someone who would be a good match for you if you show her that you’re a man who’s worth it.

It depends on the guy and the situation, really. I know I couldn’t be friends with a woman after a bad relationship or even one that was building but abruptly ended.

Women really shouldn’t take it personally, but would/should/coulds can be pale when it comes to romance.

But I asked a friend at college out once, she said no, and the next day she invited me to sit with her & others at lunch. So that was nice.

And even though we no longer even live in the same state, the four of us are good friends and I can’t wait to fly out for their wedding in November.

Well, that’s nice. But I’m sure I don’t have to even say it doesn’t always work out like that. If a guy likes you and you say no to a date, it could just be too painful for him to be around you.

 

[SuperLuigi]

EXACTLY. Everyone has a fried, a sister, a co-worker that they can recommend. That’s exactly why you go to the bar-b-que by yourself. That’s why you go to the company party by yourself. To meet the friend of a friend.

Well, if a guy is hung up on you he may not be interested in that.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

SuperLuigi: Absolutely. I was talking more in terms of casual friends or acquaintances. If it’s a close friendship of course it could negatively affect it. It’s definitely reasonable that the friendship would change. I’ve even had to do that, especially when the guy starts dating someone else.

I was thinking more like the cute barista at the coffee shop. You have pleasant conversations together, you ask her out, she says no, so suddenly you have no use for her. Her wit/intelligence/perspective or even just the fun you have together is just no longer worth the time or effort. That behavior screams to me “I only view relationships women in terms of sex”. My male friends have also complained about women abruptly ending conversations as soon as they hear the word ‘wife’.

 

[pianistclare]

Well, if a guy is hung up on you he may not be interested in that.

I hear what you’re saying…but honestly. I spent a lot of time without a date in college. I had guy casual friends, but no dates. Then, when I got engaged shortly after graduation…guys who were previously SO adamant they only wanted to be friends suddenly wanted to go out. Wanted to “see if there was chemistry”. What?
Something about a woman who is taken is attractive to guys. I don’t get it. Or maybe it’s that they can practice all their flirting on you now that they know you won’t take them up on any of it.
Is that it??? No threat of having to “perform” as it were? You know, make pleasant conversation, pretend to be interested in what you do, go to plays or other social functions?