A person very close to me ended his own life

[Spoken4]

I am praying that God will have mercy on his soul, given that he suffered from serious mental illness (for which he was receiving treatment), and ongoing cruelty from his family, including his own children.

He was not a Catholic, but he was baptized. I am praying constantly for him, but I guess I need some closure-- as I was the first to know of his death. I was also taught that a person who ends their own life is forever separated from God’s Kingdom. To put it bluntly, as I was taught, that person’s soul goes to Hell.

However, I was also taught that someone who commits a sinful act while not in full function of their faculties does not commit a mortal sin. Since my friend was mentally ill at the time of his death, he would not have been “fully functioning” or “in his right mind”, and I would like to think that he does have a chance to enter the Kingdom of Heaven after a time in Purgatory. (BTW, I am avoiding the use of the word for “a self-inflicted death”, as this has really been very hard on me for this past year.)

Hard question: Is it possible that he is in Heaven or at lest has a chance to go to Heaven after being cleansed in Purgatory?

In Christ,
~Spoken4

 

[horselvr]

I feel for you. I had a friend that also ended her life after years of being treated like an outsider by her family. She was a lesbian and an alcoholic and they disowned her and even refused to allow her to live in the family home. She had to live in a camper on the many acres her family owned. She was a sad soul and an outcast.

I do understand the worry you have for your friends soul however, I believe the Catholic Church feels that someone is not in their right mind to go to such an extreme. Yes, definately pray for the soul of your friend.

 

[Edward_H]

We don’t know. If anyone tells you the answer with a sense of certainty they are either God or they are lying.

A wise priest told me this:

“God can save us even in the very last nanosecond of our life. And He knows all the tricks.”

So perhaps in the dizzying last second, a person may regret, may doubt, may long for God.

 

[Trishie]

Dear soul, please find some elucidation and comfort in the words of the official Catechism of the Catholic Church. Highlighted are the words of trust in God’s mercy, and mitigating circumstances that still allow for a suicide person’s salvation. Be assured of my prayers for him and his family and friends.

**Suicide **

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.
2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
**Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. **2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

 

[Blessed1934]

We don’t know the answer to that question for we are not God.
All we can do is pray for this person’s soul. I hope and pray
for him that somehow his soul will go to heaven. It is truly
a shame to be treated like that. I know someone myself that
has been treated like that all her life. It is so sad that in this world
some people are treated like this because they may be a little “different”
but we are all God’s children and HE loves us all the same and in the
end he is the only one that matters…

I will pray for your friend.
My condolences to you.:console:
God Bless,
Linda

 

[Spoken4]

Thank you all for your words of comfort and expounding on the Catechism.

What’s making it especially hard is the fact that he has well-known in the local professional community. I worked for/with him for a number of years, up to the very day that he ended his life. I have been looking for another position within that same field, and it seems that every interview has descended into the interviewer trying to incite gossip, or trying to probe me for information.

I refuse to “go there” in an interview (or in a work setting). It’s not my place to discuss that ssubject, and it’s really VERY inappropriate for an interviewer or employer to even bring it up.

Needless to say, most interviews since that day haven’t gone very well for me. Praise Him, though, that I have my own small business. While it isn’t much, it does keep food on the table and a little gas in my car, and my husband has an income as well. Still, it just opens the wounds again every time someone asks about it. The mode he chose to end his life was very sudden and violent… not good at all.

In Christ,
~Spoken4

 

[Edward_H]

Maybe think about his virtues…and think about one in particular…and when his name comes up in an interview…you simply, quietly say…“I’ll forever be moved by his <patience, fortitude, knowledge>, it’s something that I have been working on and I owe it to him…now about your current needs…”

Say nothing unkind, pray, and gently turn the focus back to the business at hand.

 

[Incomplete]

Maybe think about his virtues…and think about one in particular…and when his name comes up in an interview…you simply, quietly say…“I’ll forever be moved by his <patience, fortitude, knowledge>, it’s something that I have been working on and I owe it to him…now about your current needs…”

Say nothing unkind, pray, and gently turn the focus back to the business at hand.

Great answer.

 

[faithfully]

Thank you all for your words of comfort and expounding on the Catechism.

What’s making it especially hard is the fact that he has well-known in the local professional community. I worked for/with him for a number of years, up to the very day that he ended his life. I have been looking for another position within that same field, and it seems that every interview has descended into the interviewer trying to incite gossip, or trying to probe me for information.

I refuse to “go there” in an interview (or in a work setting). It’s not my place to discuss that ssubject, and it’s really VERY inappropriate for an interviewer or employer to even bring it up.

Needless to say, most interviews since that day haven’t gone very well for me. Praise Him, though, that I have my own small business. While it isn’t much, it does keep food on the table and a little gas in my car, and my husband has an income as well. Still, it just opens the wounds again every time someone asks about it. The mode he chose to end his life was very sudden and violent… not good at all.

In Christ,
~Spoken4

I’m so sorry you are hurting over this. God works in mysterious ways. That’s for sure. Just pray for his soul. If he has a chance at heaven, I’m sure you and his loved ones and friends, and the rest of us can assist in that!!!

I’ve been a hiring manager many times… it’s terribly inappropriate that anyone would question you about this. I recommend that you do one of 2 things, perhaps both. 1) see it as a red flag. They are showing you they don’t understand appropriate bounderies, and you might not want to work for them short of absolute desperation. 2) Just ask them “not to render you to tears” and leave it at that…

Hugs!

 

[gonefishing]

A person does not take their own life because they don’t love their friends or their family or God. They do it because they’re in a lot of pain and they don’t see any end to that pain on the horizon. It’s not a selfish act to seek relief or release from pain. I can’t see any loving, merciful, compassionate God turning His back on a person who would go to such drastic lengths to escape suffering, anguish, and torment.

Suicide has been defined (or maybe just nutshelled) by psychologists as something that “occurs when a person’s pain exceeds his or her resources and ability to cope.” Pain AND resources. Yes, you already knew of his mental health issues and they probably had a lot to do with his decision. That’s not in debate, at least not by me.

Yes, it hurts. Realize that that wasn’t his intent.

All you can do is pray for him. All the religious leaders in the world can get together and debate the issue to the end of time. Whether it was mental illness or just one man succumbing to the pain in his life, I can’t bring myself to believe that prayers to God for such a person’s soul would fall on deaf ears. Yes, I think that would help. Pray for him.

 

[The_Reginator]

This is a difficult topic for me too.
Just over a year ago my own brother took his life.
He was baptized as an adolescent and confirmed into the Anglican faith at age 17. After that he grew further and further away from any faith as far as I could tell.
He was the most well adjusted person in the family. His suicide was well planned. My 84 year old mother is still grieving. Her comfort: “once saved, always saved”. She believes that his confirmation at age 17 will have saved him.

My comfort? Mathew 20: 1-16 (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible)

[1] The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. [2] And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. [3] And going out about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle. [4] And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just. [5] And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner.

[6] But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle? [7] They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard. [8] And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. [9] When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. [10] But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny.

[11] And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, [12] Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. [13] But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? [14] Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. [15] Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?

[15] “What I will”… Viz., with my own, and in matters that depend on my own bounty.

[16] So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.

We have no idea what God’s mercy will bring about at the moment of death.

 

[Holly3278]

I am so sorry to hear of your loss Spoken. Please know that a grave mental disturbance can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide for his/her act. From the Catechism:

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

That said, it sounds like your friend had a very rough life. Please know that God is a merciful God and while we definitely cannot know his eternal fate, we can still pray for the repose of his soul. Trust in the mercy of God. You may very well see your friend in Heaven.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I am praying that God will have mercy on his soul, given that he suffered from serious mental illness (for which he was receiving treatment), and ongoing cruelty from his family, including his own children.

He was not a Catholic, but he was baptized. I am praying constantly for him, but I guess I need some closure-- as I was the first to know of his death. I was also taught that a person who ends their own life is forever separated from God’s Kingdom. To put it bluntly, as I was taught, that person’s soul goes to Hell.

As other posters have stated, we don’t know that. Personally, as a former sufferer of severe mental illness, I know how convincing a desire to end the confusion and mental anguish. I was lucky and even though I spent a couple years in a deep depression, wishing the world would end if that’s what it took to stop the racing thoughts, I had a wonderfully supporting wife and the children were wonderful, and I had a few good friends. With all that support, I think they helped give me incentive to hang on.

Without family support, I can’t even imagine how bad it might have been. Also mental illness people often are “led by God” to do things they normally wouldn’t do nor do they understand why they’re doing them.

… and I would like to think that he does have a chance to enter the Kingdom of Heaven after a time in Purgatory. (BTW, I am avoiding the use of the word for “a self-inflicted death”, as this has really been very hard on me for this past year.)

Hard question: Is it possible that he is in Heaven or at lest has a chance to go to Heaven after being cleansed in Purgatory?

This is not necessarily true, but I personally would like to think that his purgatory may have gotten underway even right in the middle of the mental illness.I think that purgation and mental illness can go hand in hand, symptomatically. I’d bet everything I own he’s not going to be condemned for the way he died.

Alan

 

[Spoken4]

… I personally would like to think that his purgatory may have gotten underway even right in the middle of the mental illness .I think that purgation and mental illness can go hand in hand, symptomatically. I’d bet everything I own he’s not going to be condemned for the way he died.

Alan

You know, I never tought of it that way, but that could be true. We really don’t know what God’s plans are or what Purgatory really is. What if Purgatory or a part of it is right here on Earth? We tend to think of Purgatory as a “place” that we go to after we have died, but it could be that He begins preparing us for his Kingdom while we’re still here on Earth. I believe that He does, in some ways, but I never thought that part of that preparation could well be a part of Purgatory but it makes sense.

Strange as it may sound, your insight has actually brought some comfort. Maybe if I myself begin thinking of my own earthly trials as a “tempering by fire”, they won’t seem to be without reason. God always does things for a reason, though we don’t always know what the reason is. Maybe this IS the reason… we can always pray on it.

I suppose it’s one thing to end one’s life as a means of escaping just and righteous earthly (civil and criminal) punishments. It’s another to end one’s life to escape torture, cruelty and “meaningless” suffering such as “Doc” experienced at the hands of his family and others. After all, this WAS a man who gave so much of himself to others and to God’s creatures. He was a good man, not a criminal who was “looking for the easy way out”.

**Almighty God, Our Heavenly Father,
we understand that Your Sixth Commandment, “Thou shalt do no murder” includes self-murder.
But in thy Divine Mercy, we beg Thy forgiveness especially for “Doc”,
and all who had been so confounded by the pressures of this life
that they felt there was no way that they could continue.
Grant, we beseech Thee, that they be forgiven for their terrible sin
and accepted into Thy Divine Providence,
and that they may come to understand Thy Ways and Thy Nature.

Comfort those who mourn their loved ones
and their families who grieve.
Strengthen them to face the questions of pain,
the guilt and anger, the irreparable loss.
Help us to reach out in love to others who are so desperately troubled,
who see no other options but death to the trials of life
Grant them peace from their inner turmoil
and the compassion of your love.

We ask this in Jesus Christ’s Name.

Amen.

*Mary, Mother of God-- pray for Doc and for us
St. Francis-- pray for Doc, and for us
St. Gertrude-- pray for Doc and for us
St. Blaise, St. Eligius, and St. James the Greater-- pray for Doc and for us
St. Dymphna-- pray for Doc and for us * **



In Christ,
~Spoken4

 

[The_Reginator]

You know, I never tought of it that way, but that could be true. We really don’t know what God’s plans are or what Purgatory really is. What if Purgatory or a part of it is right here on Earth? We tend to think of Purgatory as a “place” that we go to after we have died, but it could be that He begins preparing us for his Kingdom while we’re still here on Earth. I believe that He does, in some ways, but I never thought that part of that preparation could well be a part of Purgatory but it makes sense.

Strange as it may sound, your insight has actually brought some comfort. Maybe if I myself begin thinking of my own earthly trials as a “tempering by fire”, they won’t seem to be without reason. God always does things for a reason, though we don’t always know what the reason is. Maybe this IS the reason… we can always pray on it.

I suppose it’s one thing to end one’s life as a means of escaping just and righteous earthly (civil and criminal) punishments. It’s another to end one’s life to escape torture, cruelty and “meaningless” suffering such as “Doc” experienced at the hands of his family and others. After all, this WAS a man who gave so much of himself to others and to God’s creatures. He was a good man, not a criminal who was “looking for the easy way out”.

**Almighty God, Our Heavenly Father,
we understand that Your Sixth Commandment, “Thou shalt do no murder” includes self-murder.
But in thy Divine Mercy, we beg Thy forgiveness especially for “Doc”,
and all who had been so confounded by the pressures of this life
that they felt there was no way that they could continue.
Grant, we beseech Thee, that they be forgiven for their terrible sin
and accepted into Thy Divine Providence,
and that they may come to understand Thy Ways and Thy Nature.

Comfort those who mourn their loved ones
and their families who grieve.
Strengthen them to face the questions of pain,
the guilt and anger, the irreparable loss.
Help us to reach out in love to others who are so desperately troubled,
who see no other options but death to the trials of life
Grant them peace from their inner turmoil
and the compassion of your love.

We ask this in Jesus Christ’s Name.

Amen.

*Mary, Mother of God-- pray for Doc and for us
St. Francis-- pray for Doc, and for us
St. Gertrude-- pray for Doc and for us
St. Blaise, St. Eligius, and St. James the Greater-- pray for Doc and for us
St. Dymphna-- pray for Doc and for us ***



In Christ,
~Spoken4

Amen.

 

[Greg27]

Mental illness such as severe depression severely compromises the ability of a person to think rationally. A person who is suicidal due to mental illness is often incapable of understanding the real situation before them. Depression can trigger some really horrible thoughts that cause absolute mental agony to the sufferer, including extreme self-hatred. To normal people this thinking is entirely irrational and it is.

I think the old teaching on suicide tended to presume suicidal people had full control of their faculties and did it to defy God. But with our improved understanding of mental illness, it is now clear that mental illness can seriously undermine a person’s ability to think and reason properly and make them do things they would not normally do. Also, given many people who suicide after a long mental illness have suffered a horrible trauma to cause it (such as childhood sex abuse or the death of a spouse) I think it is absurd to regard such people with anything but compassion.

I think God is very merciful to such people and while judgement is up to him, these people are the last that would be condemned.

 

[Stavros]

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. It’s hard to understand the confusion and pain when someone close chooses to end their own life, and the What Ifs can destroy your soul if you let them.

It sounds like your grief is profound enough to need more support than you are currently getting in your life. Do some searching on the Internet and see if there is a Survivors of Suicide group in your area. When my brother committed suicide, I went to this survivor support group in Dallas, and it helped a great deal.

sccenter.org/sos.html

Being around others who have experienced that great loss can be a life-changing experience. I’ll remember you in my prayers this evening.

 

[Spoken4]

When my brother committed suicide, I went to this survivor support group in Dallas, and it helped a great deal.

sccenter.org/sos.html

I’m in Dallas also-- would you mind sending me a PM with the info? I can look it up, too, but it’s helpful to have info from a local as well as the general site info.

In thanks,

~Spoken4

 

[wild_thing]

I am very, very sorry for your loss. I think what the other posters have said about suicide and God’s mercy is very true. St. John Vianney once told a widow whose husband had committed suicide, “For God, there is an eternity between the bridge and the water.”

I will pray for your friend.

P.S. You can absolutely start your purgatory here on this earth. The saints were purified by suffering before they died; so it can be for the rest of us. God bless.:hug1:

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Know that whatever the reason, your friend’s case has been decided by almighty God. Trust God’s judgment. If he is in purgatory, your prayers may help. So it is useful and compassionate to pray. If he is not in heaven or purgatory, you know where he is, so you know that God’s justice is also right if there is no case to be made for his mercy.

Console yourself and your friend with your prayers, but know that his final destiny has already been decided and there is nothing more to be gained by grieving.

I have known two people who committed suicide. I had to see a physician for some medication after the second one died.

Take care of yourself. Talk to a priest if you find yourself in really great pain. I did that and the priest wept with me. Misery loves company.