A PERSONAL insight while praying the Our Father [Edited title]

[love4mary]

Please, this is not meant to stir up a huge Should/Should not debate on whether we should hold hands during the Our Father. I would just like to share a personal revelation I had last week at Daily Mass.

About 30 of us joined hands while praying the Our Father, One lady though, kept her hands folded in prayer (which I have no objection to). What struck me was how Protestant (no offense meant and please remember this is just what came to my mind) her actions were. We are called to worship as a Community and you can’t get more 'Community" then at Mass. Our prayers are Joined with those we are worshiping with.

By joining hands, we are Joining all our prayers and directing them to God. By not joining hands, and this is MY OPINION only, it just seems like a physical separation from our community, like we are all separated parts of the same body.

I respect those who wish not to hold hands, but at the same time, I feel a bit saddened to what I preserve as a separation. Personally, I gain so much more strength and love from holding hands with fellow believers.

As stated many times in this tread, this is ONLY my opinion that suddenly popped into my head while praying the Our Father. I just thank God that the majority at my parish DO hold hands. I believe that it brings us closer together as the body of Christ and as a community.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I believe the GIRM and similar documents discourage hand-holding during the Lord’s Prayer.

Among Melkites (and Middle Eastern Christians generally), the orans position is taken during this prayer.

Never have I felt “separated” or “not in community” because we don’t hold hands during the Our Father. In fact, St. John of the Desert IS a very loving and welcoming parish.

Following your rationale, why don’t people hold hands during the entire Mass?

But if you hold hands, how can you make the Sign of the Cross?

During a recent parish retreat, the pastor remarked that just being present at the services means we experience togetherness and community.

Think about it.

 

[lizaanne]

What struck me was how Protestant …her actions were.

That’s funny to me, because I feel the whole holding hands thing is VERY Protestant.

It is one of the things I love about our parish - we never hold hands, nor do we have a communal sign of peace either. I love it that way, it allows be to focus on why I’m there, not who is standing next to me, but Who is in front of me.

Hmph - go figure.

~Liza

 

[Sarabande]

I first want to say that I don’t hold anything against those who do hold hands during the “Our Father”. It’s not really common in my area (was back in the 80s when I was kid, but no longer). I still sometimes see little pockets here and there at various parishes, but it’s not a big deal. Priests aren’t encouraging it here.

That said, I do not hold hands because I do understand that it isn’t encouraged and also because (for me) it just seems really out of place during the mass. We are already there as a community worshiping God. And because it isn’t encouraged, I don’t see any meaning in it. For me, it doesn’t make me feel anymore in a community with the group as it does when we either recite it or chant it together without holding hands.

I hate to say this, but when I was a kid and we had to do these things, it always reminded me of some sort 60s hippie type of thing or when people would get together and sing “We Are The World”. Then, when I got a little older in my pre-teens and teens and had relatives who became born-again Christians, holding hands totally reminded me of the kind of services my cousins and aunt/uncle would attend. So, I have that in my background to give me a totally different outlook on it as not being a Catholic “community” practice at all which belongs in the Liturgy, but something borrowed and adapted from either a secular culture or a different religious denomination.

I mean, I can understand if some people have some sort of love for it. (When I was a kid, at dinner while saying grace, we used to hold hands and that was nice.) But during the Liturgy, for me it just seems out of place and breaks the flow of the meditative prayer and focus on God when one has to do something like that. It’s sort of like how if a mass was using all chant, then suddenly during one acclimation, decide to use a setting composed during a different century and totally different from the chant. It breaks the flow and spiritually meditative flow of the mass. It’s very jarring as a “participant” in the music liturgy of the mass. The same would be if I had to “participate” by holding hands. (Wouldn’t affect me much, if at all, if I didn’t have to partake in holding hands.)

But that’s just me.

 

[water]

If we have to hold hand during the Lord’s prayer, we better hold hand the entire mass. Who wants that?

 

[lizaanne]

I first want to say that I don’t hold anything against those who do hold hands during the “Our Father”. It’s not really common in my area (was back in the 80s when I was kid, but no longer). I still sometimes see little pockets here and there at various parishes, but it’s not a big deal. Priests aren’t encouraging it here.

That said, I do not hold hands because I do understand that it isn’t encouraged and also because (for me) it just seems really out of place during the mass. We are already there as a community worshiping God. And because it isn’t encouraged, I don’t see any meaning in it. For me, it doesn’t make me feel anymore in a community with the group as it does when we either recite it or chant it together without holding hands.

I hate to say this, but when I was a kid and we had to do these things, it always reminded me of some sort 60s hippie type of thing or when people would get together and sing “We Are The World”. Then, when I got a little older in my pre-teens and teens and had relatives who became born-again Christians, holding hands totally reminded me of the kind of services my cousins and aunt/uncle would attend. So, I have that in my background to give me a totally different outlook on it as not being a Catholic “community” practice at all which belongs in the Liturgy, but something borrowed and adapted from either a secular culture or a different religious denomination.

I mean, I can understand if some people have some sort of love for it. (When I was a kid, at dinner while saying grace, we used to hold hands and that was nice.) But during the Liturgy, for me it just seems out of place and breaks the flow of the meditative prayer and focus on God when one has to do something like that. It’s sort of like how if a mass was using all chant, then suddenly during one acclimation, decide to use a setting composed during a different century and totally different from the chant. It breaks the flow and spiritually meditative flow of the mass. It’s very jarring as a “participant” in the music liturgy of the mass. The same would be if I had to “participate” by holding hands. (Wouldn’t affect me much, if at all, if I didn’t have to partake in holding hands.)

But that’s just me.

This is very well said - I do feel exactly the same way. My dad loves to hold hands, and grabs mine when we are at Mass together. I don’t mind that he does that because it means something to him, but it just doesn’t feel right, and is quite disruptive to prayer - for me.

~Liza

 

[love4mary]

I an appreciate all the reasons why one would choose not to hold hands and respect that, and like I said,this was simply my opinion.

But, and again stressing my opinion, it just seems like while attending Mass its like alot of individual people as apposed to a unified body of believers.

It is entirely possible and most likely probable, that I am not articulating myself as well as I should be.

My perspective of protestants, which is VERY limited, is that they have a “Jesus and me only” type of worship (not a blanket statement to be sure, just what I have observed in my town and with speaking with them). I guess it was the way inwhich this lady at Daily Mass presented herself during the prayer that put me off a bit…and YES, I should have NOT noticed her and simply closed my eyes while praying (which is normally how I pray).

I wish not to offend anyone concerning this and please my Protestant breathern, I mean NO disrespect to you.

Sometimes its very hard when not growing up in the Christian community like I did. My protestant friends tell me I am wrong praying like a Catholic and my Catholic friends tell me I am wrong praying like a Protestant:shrug:

How ever and by what ever method, I pray for the love of God best way I can and just pray I become a better Catholic and follower of Jesus.

 

[japhy]

Personally, I gain so much more strength and love from holding hands with fellow believers. … I believe that it brings us closer together as the body of Christ and as a community.

Does it actually do that, or is it just a feeling you get when the hands are being held? What I mean is, is it the “experience” of holding hands, or is there an actual spiritual fruit that is present long after the “Our Father” is over?

 

[Corki]

.

About 30 of us joined hands while praying the Our Father, One lady though, kept her hands folded in prayer (which I have no objection to). What struck me was how Protestant (no offense meant and please remember this is just what came to my mind) her actions were. We are called to worship as a Community and you can’t get more 'Community" then at Mass. Our prayers are Joined with those we are worshiping with.

By joining hands, we are Joining all our prayers and directing them to God. By not joining hands, and this is MY OPINION only, it just seems like a physical separation from our community, like we are all separated parts of the same body.

I respect those who wish not to hold hands, but at the same time, I feel a bit saddened to what I preserve as a separation. Personally, I gain so much more strength and love from holding hands with fellow believers.

As stated many times in this tread, this is ONLY my opinion that suddenly popped into my head while praying the Our Father. I just thank God that the majority at my parish DO hold hands. I believe that it brings us closer together as the body of Christ and as a community.

I can see how you could get that feeling. Personally, I think that since we are already joining our voices together to pray in unison (or often to sing in unison), holding hands is an extraneous gesture of unity.

There are parts of the Mass that focus on the horizontal such as Communion, the Sign of Peace and the Confetior (and you my brothers and sisters…) while others focus on the vertical. The Lord’s Prayer, in my opinion is such a beautiful vertical prayer. It is all about our personal responsibilities and experience of God. Adding a horizontal symbolic gesture seems to knock it out of balance.

Too much of the horizontal and we start worshiping the Community instead of worshiping AS as community.

 

[rpp]

I would like to highlight what appears to be the basis for your opinion. All emphasis is mine.

Please, this is not meant to stir up a huge Should/Should not debate on whether we should hold hands during the Our Father. I would just like to share a personal revelation I had last week at Daily Mass.

About 30 of us joined hands while praying the Our Father, One lady though, kept her hands folded in prayer (which I have no objection to). What struck me was how Protestant (no offense meant and please remember this is just what came to my mind) her actions were. ** We are called to worship as a Community** and you can’t get more 'Community" then at Mass. Our prayers are Joined with those we are worshiping with.

By joining hands, we are Joining all our prayers and directing them to God. By not joining hands, and this is MY OPINION only, it just seems like a physical separation from our community, like we are all separated parts of the same body.

I respect those who wish not to hold hands, but at the same time, I feel a bit saddened to what I preserve as a separation. Personally, I gain so much more strength and love from holding hands with fellow believers.

As stated many times in this tread, this is ONLY my opinion that suddenly popped into my head while praying the Our Father. I just thank God that the majority at my parish DO hold hands. I believe that it brings us closer together as the body of Christ and as a community.

I an appreciate all the reasons why one would choose not to hold hands and respect that, and like I said,this was simply my opinion.

But, and again stressing my opinion, it just seems like while attending Mass its like alot of individual people as apposed to a unified body of believers.

It is entirely possible and most likely probable, that I am not articulating myself as well as I should be.

My perspective of protestants, which is VERY limited, is that they have a “Jesus and me only” type of worship (not a blanket statement to be sure, just what I have observed in my town and with speaking with them). I guess it was the way inwhich this lady at Daily Mass presented herself during the prayer that put me off a bit…and YES, I should have NOT noticed her and simply closed my eyes while praying (which is normally how I pray).

I wish not to offend anyone concerning this and please my Protestant breathern, I mean NO disrespect to you.

Sometimes its very hard when not growing up in the Christian community like I did. My protestant friends tell me I am wrong praying like a Catholic and my Catholic friends tell me I am wrong praying like a Protestant:shrug:

How ever and by what ever method, I pray for the love of God best way I can and just pray I become a better Catholic and follower of Jesus.

Can you provide documentation that says we are to worship as a community and not as individuals? I do not believe you will be able to because such a documents do not exist. We are to actively participate in Mass, but our focus is to be on God (vertical) and the Eucharist, not on each other (horizontal).

Mass is ALWAYS and individual event, whether it is just you and the priest, or 50,000 people at a Papal Mass.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

That’s funny to me, because I feel the whole holding hands thing is VERY Protestant.

It is one of the things I love about our parish - we never hold hands, nor do we have a communal sign of peace either. I love it that way, it allows be to focus on why I’m there, not who is standing next to me, but Who is in front of me.

Hmph - go figure.

~Liza

I really wish people would look into these things before labeling them “protestant.” There isn’t anything “protestant” about the practice of holding hands during the Our Father. This is not something Protestants came up with, indeed, in general, evangelical/fundamentalist (and they are myriad in denomination, but form the largest bulk of Protestantism as a whole) Protestants that do not have a liturgical tradition do not even use the Our Father in their worship. Growing up Baptist, the only time I said the Lord’s Prayer was before the Friday night football game and it was lead by our coach, at a public school, as we knelt in our football gear.

If we as Catholics do not want to be accused of worshipping the Blessed Mother of God or statues, if we don’t want to be accused of trying to earn our salvation, then let’s extend to those seperated from the Church the same courtesty.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I would like to highlight what appears to be the basis for your opinion. All emphasis is mine.

Can you provide documentation that says we are to worship as a community and not as individuals? I do not believe you will be able to because such a documents do not exist. We are to actively participate in Mass, but our focus is to be on God (vertical) and the Eucharist, not on each other (horizontal).

Mass is ALWAYS and individual event, whether it is just you and the priest, or 50,000 people at a Papal Mass.

Do you not think that there should be a deliberate tension, as it were, between the two, the horizontal and the vertical? Sort of like the string on an instrument? We are not there to celebrate community, granted, but we are there AS a community.

As an aside, I happen to dislike the hand holding.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I really wish people would look into these things before labeling them “protestant.” There isn’t anything “protestant” about the practice of holding hands during the Our Father. This is not something Protestants came up with, indeed, in general, evangelical/fundamentalist (and they are myriad in denomination, but form the largest bulk of Protestantism as a whole) Protestants that do not have a liturgical tradition do not even use the Our Father in their worship. Growing up Baptist, the only time I said the Lord’s Prayer was before the Friday night football game and it was lead by our coach, at a public school, as we knelt in our football gear.

If we as Catholics do not want to be accused of worshipping the Blessed Mother of God or statues, if we don’t want to be accused of trying to earn our salvation, then let’s extend to those seperated from the Church the same courtesty.

I think it would be good if the Church made a rule about it. Hold hands or don’t. It’s one of those grey areas. Mostly, people know exactly what to do during Mass, but not in the case of the Our Father. Personally, I don’t care one way or the other. I think giving others the sign of peace is more communal than holding hand saying the Lord’s Prayer though.

 

[japhy]

Can you provide documentation that says we are to worship as a community and not as individuals? I do not believe you will be able to because such a documents do not exist. We are to actively participate in Mass, but our focus is to be on God (vertical) and the Eucharist, not on each other (horizontal). Mass is ALWAYS and individual event, whether it is just you and the priest, or 50,000 people at a Papal Mass.

I disagree. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, and each parish is a microcosm of that Body. Paul, in 1 Cor 12, talks about the members of the body rejoicing and suffering with one another, not by themselves. The reason we are obliged to assist at Mass on Sundays and other holy days is precisely because Mass is the corporate (i.e. as-a-body) worship of God by the Church, so it is disrespectful to the Body as a whole to ignore a function that is proper to the whole Body and each of its members. So it is also disrespectful to the Body as a whole to ignore the members while paying reverence to the Head, Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, the priest speaks to us as a whole, not individually (except during Communion). And in the Confiteor, if you remember, we “ask … you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God”.

 

[snhs]

About 30 of us joined hands while praying the Our Father, One lady though, kept her hands folded in prayer (which I have no objection to). What struck me was how Protestant (no offense meant and please remember this is just what came to my mind) her actions were. We are called to worship as a Community and you can’t get more 'Community" then at Mass. Our prayers are Joined with those we are worshiping with.

By joining hands, we are Joining all our prayers and directing them to God. By not joining hands, and this is MY OPINION only, it just seems like a physical separation from our community, like we are all separated parts of the same body.

I respect those who wish not to hold hands, but at the same time, I feel a bit saddened to what I preserve as a separation. Personally, I gain so much more strength and love from holding hands with fellow believers.

Yeah, holding her hands in prayer how very Protestant of her. And I guess the fact Catholics followed the practice for 2000 years or so before hand holding (which was itself probably adopted from Protestant denominations) was introduced isn’t worth considering?

If you want to talk about community then maybe we should first look at the uniformity of the action. It certainly isn’t mentioned in the GIRM, in fact if anything it is those who are holding hands who are separating themselves from the rest of the community because guess what it is just about only in the US that the practice is even contemplated the rest of the Universal Church, which is as surely part of the Church as the person right next to you in the pew should be considered in the equation.

Don’t know if you’ve ever heard of John Donne, English Metaphysical poet. He wrote a poem in which he described the love he had for a woman (I think it was his wife), the idea was that as their separation grew so their love grew stronger to bridge the gap. For them physical separation wasn’t the be all and end all or anything remotely resembling, it was simply not a factor. It ends comparing them to a compass, with his wife, while still at home, always connected to him and it was on her that he was centered.

The whole concept of hand holding during Mass is a bad idea because it puts the emphasis on the people in the Church rather than on what it should be. If we insist on holding hands as a sign of unity then what of all those who are by virtue of geography or any other factor inherently separated. It puts an undue emphasis on the physical when it is the spiritual which should take primary position. To extend Donne’s compass analogy to the Mass, Christ should be the centre, it should be on him that our prayer is centered. The physicality of whether someone is right beside us, at a Papal Mass in Rome or in the Heavenly Choirs should be completely irrelevant, it is the spiritual or metaphysical dimensions that our thoughts should be most aware of because in Christ, and most especially when at Mass, we are united not just as a Parish or Diocese but as a Universal Church. To reduce it to the simplicity of either we’re holding hands or we’re not as joined to the community or as much a part of the community is to make a mockery of that greater significance which goes beyond the mundane aspects we might be most aware of in daily life.

 

[Ruthie]

I believe that the custom of holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer came, not from non-Catholic Christians, but from AA, where it is ingrained.

I’m one of those ladies who takes the traditional “steeple-hands” position during the Our Father. Father asked us to in RCIA! He is gently bringing things back to full compliance. Like we have a real confessional now; and those of us that pay attention are ready to say “and with your spirit” when the time comes.

Maybe I’m the one the OP was talking about - we’re out of town visiting our new-Mom niece, and went to Mass at a fairly liberal church where everybody held hands. The Mass itself was fine, and licit as far as I could tell.

Ruthie

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I think it would be good if the Church made a rule about it. Hold hands or don’t. It’s one of those grey areas. Mostly, people know exactly what to do during Mass, but not in the case of the Our Father. Personally, I don’t care one way or the other. I think giving others the sign of peace is more communal than holding hand saying the Lord’s Prayer though.

There is a rule but some people ignore it, including some priests. At a recent mass in Spanish a visiting priest told the people to hold hands as a sign of unity. I could see everyone’s bewildered looks and discomfort since the pastor says mass by the book, which does not mandate that posture.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I personally don’t care to hold hands during the Our Father, it is not a custom in my parish although some do it, but a couple of weeks ago I was at Mass with my friend who does, and when the prayer started I didn’t take her hand and she got this hurt look on her face and I immediately took her hand. I did not think it proper to give offense to my friend during Mass–it is not a sinful act to hold someone’s hand during the Our Father, and charity needs to prevail in such a situation, IMO.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I personally don’t care to hold hands during the Our Father, it is not a custom in my parish although some do it, but a couple of weeks ago I was at Mass with my friend who does, and when the prayer started I didn’t take her hand and she got this hurt look on her face and I immediately took her hand. I did not think it proper to give offense to my friend during Mass–it is not a sinful act to hold someone’s hand during the Our Father, and charity needs to prevail in such a situation, IMO.

I agree.

 

[twb1621]

Whether holding hands or not it is very normal for different parishes to follow the practices they are most comfortable with outside of required practices that is. As long as the people are not avoiding holding or shaking hands because they do not want to be bothered with other parishioners, there is nothing wrong either way. The object should be unified regardless and that is joining in prayer.