A place for nations in God's kingdom?

[FabiusMaximus]

Hello everyone,

I was just thinking about something.

When I was in Italy one year, a Brazilian pastor made a little joke that broke the ice with the congregation (he was guest speaking and had an interpreter):

An Englishman, a Frenchman and a Brazilian were in a car driving at night, and were having an animated discussion on what language will be spoken in heaven one day.

“Well that’s obvious,” said the Englishman. “It must be English, because that is the lingua franca of the world today.”

“Nonsense,” responds the Frenchman. “It must be French because it is the most beautiful language.”

“Hah!” says the Brazilian. “It will be Portuguese, for that is the language of the future.”

Tragically, they all die in a horrific crash. When they reach the pearly gates, they see the Apostle Peter. They were all nudging each other, excited to hear what language would be spoken.

Peter looked at them, smiled, and said “Buongiorno! Benvenuti al Paradiso!”

The congregation laughed. But I began to wonder.

I know that our most important identity is with Christ, and that ultimately, in God’s kingdom, we are his servants above all, and the distinction between nations and races will not matter.

But I wonder - will they still exist? Not in the sense that one will still identify oneself as an Italian, or an American, or a Japanese person, but will they have a place?

Doesn’t Revelation describe that the New Jerusalem will have some place for the nations of the world?

I’m not trying to exalt nationhood above our place with God, but I just wonder if they will, in any sense, still be there? Will we all speak a heavenly language? Will our earthy languages pass away?

 

[beaumains]

J.M.J.
I’ve wondered about that, too, actually. Maybe it will be like it was on Pentecost, with everyone speaking their native language, but being able to understand each other somehow, hearing each person speak in one’s own tongue.

It’s kind of interesting that when someone like St. Bernadette has seen Our Lady, or St. Joan of Arc has heard the saints in Heaven, they’ve heard them speaking their own language and dialect.

In fact, Heaven and the New Earth are maybe the two things I find most confusing and fascinating about our Faith. Maybe I’m just a little strange.

God bless,​

 

[RPRPsych]

Doesn’t Revelation describe that the New Jerusalem will have some place for the nations of the world?

I’m not trying to exalt nationhood above our place with God, but I just wonder if they will, in any sense, still be there? Will we all speak a heavenly language? Will our earthy languages pass away?

Perhaps we will all return to the original human tongue - the one Adam and Eve spoke in Eden before the Fall, the one that man’s arrogance confounded at the Tower of Babel.

(And I say this as someone who lives in a state where secular politicians have introduced a new form of idolatry: language worship. They deny God and mock religion, but they have a blasphemous “Invocation to Language X, Our Goddess” before official ceremonies. It ain’t pretty.)

 

[aspirant]

Here’s an interesting image:

John:

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

On the one hand, they are identified by nations, tribes, peoples, and languages. On the other hand, they speak with one voice.

Another intriguing image:

Luke:

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”

Each person hears his own language, indicating that the difference remains and yet, somehow, it is also transcended.

Not actual answers, but intriguing images.

 

[bzkoss236]

But I wonder - will they still exist? Not in the sense that one will still identify oneself as an Italian, or an American, or a Japanese person, but will they have a place?

Doesn’t Revelation describe that the New Jerusalem will have some place for the nations of the world?

I’m not trying to exalt nationhood above our place with God, but I just wonder if they will, in any sense, still be there? Will we all speak a heavenly language? Will our earthy languages pass away?

I would say that no, there won’t be any kind of separation as such or any distinction between the nations. I feel that in general, the sense of heaven is that we will all be united, and being as such, we will all be on equal terms as purified heavenly creatures. And yes, I think the heavenly language would be the only language spoken because having differing languages wouldn’t make sense either and would pose no use in heaven. I don’t think we’ll forget them, but they wouldn’t be used. And I don’t think the heavenly language will be as we would consider a language, but more a sharing of wills, that being, the will of God the Father. So, spoken language would have no bearing.

Though, these are just my thoughts. In reality, heaven is something we won’t really be able to comprehend. We’ll just have to wait until we get there.

 

[small_sister]

Dear FabiusMaximus,

Zephaniah 3:9 reads: “For then I will give to the peoples purified lips [NASB-translation, the original Hebrew word is “saw-faw”= lips, language], that a all of them may call on the name of The Lord, to serve Him shoulder to shoulder.”

So one purified language will exist in God’s kingdom, will it not?

May God bless you,
small sister

 

[Bran_Stark]

(And I say this as someone who lives in a state where secular politicians have introduced a new form of idolatry: language worship. They deny God and mock religion, but they have a blasphemous “Invocation to Language X, Our Goddess” before official ceremonies. It ain’t pretty.)

Um what country is this?

 

[bzkoss236]

Um what country is this?

Look to the top right of his post. He is in India.

 

[RPRPsych]

Um what country is this?

It’s a practice in some parts of Tamil Nadu in India. They even had the “invocation” printed (in an English translation, irony of ironies) in our school textbooks when I was a teenager. The current government isn’t pushing it as much as before; it depends on who is in power.