A planeload of bibles

[Lillith]

The pastor might answer:
“How can one tell the difference between ‘inspired’ and ‘uninspired’ books? If there is a way to tell by reading our bibles, please do let us know. How is it that YOU are able to tell us what belongs in the bible? Aren’t you christians just like we are? Aren’t you human just like we are?”

Well…Mr. Pastor…Here…meet the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Jerry Falwell, Francis De Sales, Tim La Haye…and a Bishop of the Catholic Church…They desire to talk to you about their relatives…

Apparently…all you need to do to get back on track is to take a History lesson…we can show you who these people were and who they were not (disciples of Christ)

The pastor:
“Our practices are not laid out word for word in the bible, but we rely on the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. Surely these two things are sufficient for christians.”

Sir…I can assure you that Soccer is not in God’s plan of Salvation…Here…this is a book…entitled “The History of Soccer”…if you read closely…you’ll find that “soccer” or football…has it’s beginnings in Italy…and was invented for sport purposes…

Again…all you need is truth…and you’re best bet is a good unbiased History lesson

 

[Cardinalsong]

The pastor:
“We feel we love the Word of God at least as much as anyone else–probably more—which is why we feel the Holy Spirit has continued to guide us so ably. Who are you to tell us our bible is wrong? We have used the bible as is for one hundred years! We are the true stewards of the bible—we had to take out what you people added to it for your own purposes. Sure, we had to cut it a bit here and there, but only because it was obvious that certain things weren’t truly His will…things which pointed to practices and ideas that just weren’t really christian.”

Brillliant:thumbsup: I think I’ve heard these types of replies at least a hundred times, the “just weren’t really christian” ones as well as the old favorite “man-made religion” (although not quoted in the story…yet…)

:bible1:

 

[JoeyWarren]

LOL.
So we are all supposed to play dumb?
OK. If that is what you are looking for.
But you really believe this to be witty?
Seriously.
Soccer goals to be saved?
Is this the best idea you came up with? (Edited By Moderator)

Were the puritans of Salem any less ridiculous when they tested a woman if she were a witch by dunking her?

 

[NPS]

Well…Mr. Pastor…Here…meet the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Jerry Falwell, Francis De Sales, Tim La Haye…and a Bishop of the Catholic Church…They desire to talk to you about their relatives…

Apparently…all you need to do to get back on track is to take a History lesson…we can show you who these people were and who they were not (disciples of Christ)

Sir…I can assure you that Soccer is not in God’s plan of Salvation…Here…this is a book…entitled “The History of Soccer”…if you read closely…you’ll find that “soccer” or football…has it’s beginnings in Italy…and was invented for sport purposes…

Again…all you need is truth…and you’re best bet is a good unbiased History lesson

The pastor:
"Ah, history. History is written by the victors. Your people were in control of religion for all those years. The only reason we can’t find a lot of things that support our views historically is because you Catholics and Protestants just wiped out any reference to anything you disagreed with. We have our own scholars who posit a history which is surely more accurate than your biased views.

You missionaries seem so hung up on the soccer aspect of our beliefs. Don’t you read the bible? See John 3:16, Psalm 33— “Play skillfully with a shout of joy!”, and 1 Corinthians 9:25 which tells us* “Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things.”*

We break it down like this:
1)The individual says the specific words “I’m on God’s team” to show his assent to the faith.
2)The individual makes a symbolic action to show he will live a life for God.

If this is wrong, show us how. If this is different than the methods some of you Christians use, show us how----Using the bible, of course. Wait, wait…not your bible. Our bible–the true bible."

 

[thomasf]

Sounds like to me that the natives are Mormons.

 

[Church_Militant]

This whole scenario is also contingent upon the locals 1) being able to read at all, and 2) being able to read the language of all the printed matter.

If they were illiterate, then the whole issue would be moot, right?

Could they be saved according to n-C theologies? (Depending on the particular one espoused by a given poster. Tabcom might even say no.)

 

[victus]

I would then ask, where is your church?

 

[Lillith]

The pastor:
"Ah, history. History is written by the victors. Your people were in control of religion for all those years. The only reason we can’t find a lot of things that support our views historically is because you Catholics and Protestants just wiped out any reference to anything you disagreed with. We have our own scholars who posit a history which is surely more accurate than your biased views.

So…you will restore your Bible back to it’s original…since you talked to the relatives of Jerry Falwell, Francis De Sales, Tim La Haye…and a Bishop of the Catholic Church…Surely you will not call the relatives of these people unreliable…as much as they loved their descendents…they are here, and this is reliable word of mouth…admittable in a court of law in any land…

As far as History…there are scores of unbiased Historians…people who are not necessarily even religious…who would refute your “soccer saves” theology as never being in the plan of salvation…

NPS:

You missionaries seem so hung up on the soccer aspect of our beliefs. Don’t you read the bible? See John 3:16, Psalm 33— “Play skillfully with a shout of joy!”, and 1 Corinthians 9:25 which tells us* “Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things.”*

Mr. minister…the proof lies on your shoulders…you must show me how “Play skillfully”…translates into soccer…or football, which was invented in Italy in the 19th century! Here is the greek…translated…here is the Latin

 

[NPS]

The pastor answers:

So…you will restore your Bible back to it’s original…since you talked to the relatives of Jerry Falwell, Francis De Sales, Tim La Haye…and a Bishop of the Catholic Church…Surely you will not call the relatives of these people unreliable…as much as they loved their descendents…they are here, and this is reliable word of mouth…admittable in a court of law in any land…

“We have no doubt that the representatives of your Catholic and Protestant churches are good-hearted people. It’s not their fault that they have fallen away from the true intentions of God. We restored the bible to what it should be. To what God intended it to be. Even if you disagree with our additions, you must agree that the areas in the “original” where we were forced to cut deserved it. We used a book by a jewish rabbi (written 100 years after Christ’s death) to consult on our decisions. Sure, he had no love for Christ, but who knows the bible better than a jew?”

As far as History…there are scores of unbiased Historians…people who are not necessarily even religious…who would refute your “soccer saves” theology as never being in the plan of salvation…

“Let’s be clear here: We don’t believe that ‘soccer saves’, we believe that God saves. There are plenty of beliefs and practices in churches throughout the world that didn’t exist in biblical times, and we don’t understand why our beliefs are being singled out.
How different is our “Saved by soccer” than your “altar calls”?
How is your church building different from our soccer stadium? Churches didn’t exist at the time of Christ. They’re nothing more than a man-made tradition.We have pictures of your Billy Graham leading people in a very similar setting at a baseball stadium.”

Mr. minister…the proof lies on your shoulders…you must show me how “Play skillfully”…translates into soccer…or football, which was invented in Italy in the 19th century! Here is the greek…translated…here is the Latin.

“We would love to know why you feel your interpretations of certain bible passages are the correct ones. Why would you have any more authority than we do?”

 

[NPS]

I just have one question. Why is LaHaye and Falwell’s books along with that of Pope John Paul II and Francis de Sales?
If those locals did put them in the Bible, it would be a schizophrenic Bible indeed.

"Schizophrenic? Interesting choice of words. We would call it ‘bountiful’. Believe me, we thought long and hard about adding or subtracting to the bible handed down to us. But two things stood out to us:

**1)**We couldn’t find any place in the bible which said we couldn’t add or subtract from it. ( In fact, we couldn’t even find a list inside it which told us which books belonged or not)

and

**2)**We couldn’t find anything in it which said inspired scripture had stopped.

Admittedly, we figured that God would have written these things down in there somewhere, but we sure couldn’t find it. We wondered why He wouldn’t have told someone what the exact books should be—perhaps at least the publishers!

Nevertheless, we went ahead with what we felt the Holy Spirit was guiding us to do. And thank God we did, because not only is the bible a wonderful spiritual resource, but by cutting here and there, we have kept untold generations from believing and practicing superstitious and un-Christian beliefs and practices."

 

[victus]

"Schizophrenic? Interesting choice of words. We would call it ‘bountiful’. Believe me, we thought long and hard about adding or subtracting to the bible handed down to us. But two things stood out to us:

**1)**We couldn’t find any place in the bible which said we couldn’t add or subtract from it. ( In fact, we couldn’t even find a list inside it which told us which books belonged or not)

and

**2)**We couldn’t find anything in it which said inspired scripture had stopped.

Admittedly, we figured that God would have written these things down in there somewhere, but we sure couldn’t find it. We wondered why He wouldn’t have told someone what the exact books should be—perhaps at least the publishers!

Nevertheless, we went ahead with what we felt the Holy Spirit was guiding us to do. And thank God we did, because not only is the bible a wonderful spiritual resource, but by cutting here and there, we have kept untold generations from believing and practicing superstitious and un-Christian beliefs and practices."

This is why you need a Church founded by Christ, that entrusted his Apostles to the leadership of his Church. The Apostles handed down the same faith to their successors, and the bishops still preserved the same beliefs held by the apostles. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, through this Apostolic Succession.
Apostolic Succession is what links us to Christ.

Without Apostolic Succession, you get made up false beliefs and doctrines.

Case Closed

Time to show the natives the Catholic Church!

 

[Lillith]

“We would love to know why you feel your interpretations of certain bible passages are the correct ones. Why would you have any more authority than we do?”

NPS…this role playing thread of your was kinda fun in the beginning, but now it’s becoming a drag.

First off you messed up when you wrote that it was only 100 yrs. later that the next missionaries visited the island…(.which is sounding suspiciously like Gilligan’s Island BTW)…oral tradition is considered completely reliable within 180 yrs… I tell you that I have the relatives of Jerry Falwell, Francis De Sales, Tim La Haye…and a Bishop of the Catholic Church…You should concede at this point! I have family members to tell your indigenous tribe that their loved ones should not be included in the cannon…

The last part I quoted…Is merely stating a fact…words are words with no meaning until you string them together… admit that soccer is not in the phrase that you keep repeating…It is not in the Latin or the Greek…soccer isn’t in the Bible

Concede…please…and think up another scenario…this one is painfully flawed. If you refuse to concede…you are no longer debating…you are merely arguing. How embarrassing is that?

 

[NPS]

Lillith,
While I can’t speak officially for the Christians in that unnamed country from an unnamed time, I do have a fairly good idea what their reply to you would be:

"What should we concede to a christian world who is nearly exactly like we are? Unless you can show us how our christianity is different than most others in the world you have no case.

1-Did or did not other christians decide that the bible could be changed at will? If they could do it—why can’t we? We have never met any relatives of the books we find so wonderful, and if we did we wouldn’t rely on mere relatives’ opinions. We rely on the Holy Spirit.

2-It is true that the word ‘soccer’ is not in the bible. That’s fine with us. Is the word ‘Mass’ in the bible? Are the words "altar call’ in the bible? Is the phrase ‘personal savior’ in the bible?

You seem to be holding us up to a standard different than you do the rest of christianity. How embarrassing is that?"

(they would likely wink at this point)

 

[NPS]

This is why you need a Church founded by Christ, that entrusted his Apostles to the leadership of his Church. The Apostles handed down the same faith to their successors, and the bishops still preserved the same beliefs held by the apostles. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, through this Apostolic Succession.
Apostolic Succession is what links us to Christ.

Without Apostolic Succession, you get made up false beliefs and doctrines.

The pastor and his flock sit up and take notice at this unusual statement.

"You mean…we don’t simply rely on the bible?
Are you saying we need teachers in order to have the faith handed down to us correctly?:newidea:

The pastor leads one of the missionaries away from the rest of the group for a quiet conversation:

“To tell you the truth we’ve had a bit of trouble around here. You see, a lot of the christians up north and many in the western region have started up their own churches because we disagreed on so much. For instance, we knew from reading the bible that the rest of the christian world had some disagreement about baptism.”

“You knew that from reading the bible?” asked the missionary.

“Yes” nodded the pastor, “First Letter of St. James to the New Bereans”

“Saint James?” inquired the missionary.

“Of course. Saint James White. A very strident author, but a saint nonetheless.”

“James White was a very intelligent man—but he was no saint” sputtered the missionary.

“I beg to differ” corrected the pastor. “National referendum passed last June 53% to 47%. He’s a saint alright.” The pastor looked around slyly, “I voted ‘no’, to tell you the truth.”

The missionary held his head in his hands.

“Anyway” continued the pastor, “the problem we had with baptism was that even though Jesus obviously said…”

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

“…some of our pastors just wanted to do the stuff at the stadium. So we had some pastors baptizing and others instead just having people say the words and do the symbolic gesture. It was getting to be a mess.”

“What did you do?” asked the missionary.

“Changed the bible of course! It seemed the best solution. Now, now–don’t get worked up. We just put one little word in there to…umm…clarify the situation. You know, kinda like Martin Luther. He was like us—saw a need and filled it.” Seeing the raised eyebrows of the missionary, he quickly added “Guided by the Holy Spirit, of course.”

“What was the word?” asked the missionary.

“The bible now reads like this” said the pastor…

• Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, occassionally baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit. *

“…Which fit what we were about at the time. Unfortunately, it got worse after that. Since we rely only on the bible and no one has any more authority than anyone else, it’s led to some varying practices. Some people read it as “only some people get baptized–the rest stick with the soccer.” Others take it as “certain people should occassionally get baptized”. We’ve had some people get baptized thirty or forty times. It’s such a mess!”

“Terrible” agreed the missionary.

“Out of desperation, some of us began to focus in on the rest of that passage…”

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

“…which confirmed to me that there simply MUST be a better way. This relying strictly-on-the-bible stuff isn’t working all that well” said the pastor in exasperation. He looked around then quietly added “Besides, despite what anyone around here will tell you, no one really does it anyway.”

 

[123rock]

The pastor:
"Ah, history. History is written by the victors. Your people were in control of religion for all those years. The only reason we can’t find a lot of things that support our views historically is because you Catholics and Protestants just wiped out any reference to anything you disagreed with. We have our own scholars who posit a history which is surely more accurate than your biased views.

That is impossible. I’m not even going to bother to explain why because of the ridiculousness of your position. And by the way, planes have been around for only 104 years, and the kind you’re talking about weren’t around 100 years ago, so start by making your story a little less stupid.

You missionaries seem so hung up on the soccer aspect of our beliefs. Don’t you read the bible? See John 3:16, Psalm 33— “Play skillfully with a shout of joy!”, and 1 Corinthians 9:25 which tells us* “Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things.”*

**
Context.

We break it down like this:
1)The individual says the specific words “I’m on God’s team” to show his assent to the faith.
2)The individual makes a symbolic action to show he will live a life for God.

If this is wrong, show us how. If this is different than the methods some of you Christians use, show us how----Using the bible, of course. Wait, wait…not your bible. Our bible–the true bible."

Preachers produce Durant’s history of the world

 

[Efrain]

The pastor and his flock sit up and take notice at this unusual statement.

"You mean…we don’t simply rely on the bible?
Are you saying we need teachers in order to have the faith handed down to us correctly?:newidea:

Yes, how can we learn the Word properly unless some man teaches us? Acts 8:30-31 (hopefully they havn’t butchered the book of Acts.) That man must be a holy man of God of course with the authority handed down form the Apostles. The Apsotles walked and talked with the Lord and have elected Bishops to safe gaurd the full revelation of God throughout the ages.

“To tell you the truth we’ve had a bit of trouble around here. You see, a lot of the christians up north and many in the western region have started up their own churches because we disagreed on so much. For instance, we knew from reading the bible that the rest of the christian world had some disagreement about baptism.”

If only we were all so humble to recognize our faults! If only we all recognized the fault of so many denominations. Isn’t the Truth absolute? The Truth can not be custom made for our finite selfs. Therefore all denomonations can’t hold the full Truth. What then is the deciding factor to assure ourselves we have the fullness of Truth? It can’t be more painly obvious than to follow the shepherds who have been given authority from the Apostles themselves, who recieved their authority from our Lord. Blessed are those who are meek. Mt 5:5.