A possible cause of Christian Anti-Semitism

[Blackbog]

Regarding the OP, I think that theory is absolutely ludicrous.

Anti-Semitism is, at least in part, due to actions of Jews themselves. It’s a simple law of cause and effect.

If you don’t believe me, look at the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. The leading revolutionaries were primarily Jews. After they overthrew the Russian government, most of the commisars were Jews. The Jews at that time made up less than 1% of the Russian population.

Or, look at the media in America today. Magazines, movies, television, music videos, etc… most of the major companies that produce the filth that floods our market is made by Jews.

I’m not being anti-Semitic, I’m just pointing out facts. I am not a white supremacist, and believe as the Church teaches that all men are equally endowed with rational souls, etc.

But for whatever reason, the culture of Jews in other countries is such that they successfully make it to positions of power, whether in media or finance or politics, and they begin to systematically unravel the cultural fabric of the host country.

That’s just history.

 

[Jerusha]

:bigyikes: Blackbog’s statement reflects the thinking of Adolph Hitler. Clearly not legitimate reasons, given the fact that it reflects the belief that people of a despised ethnicity do not have the RIGHT to rise to positions of responsibility. He does not reflect Catholic teachings (in case anyone questions that )

Perhaps it also has something to do with jealousy of the Jewish tradition which values intellectual accomplishments, and the intellectually stultfying effect of some forms of Christianity?

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Personally I think Pope Benedict made a real impression with the Jewish leaders he met while he was in the USA.

I think ignorance is the biggest stumbling block. Education goes a long way to promote tolerance and understanding.

Further I think alot of people have a hard time differentiating a group of people from a nation’s government. In my travels I have run up against such perception. Maybe some people today have preconceived notions about the current nation of Israel and the Jewish people, the same with Muslims and certain radical governments and even terrorists. Going back to WW2, posters would show Germans and Japanese in very unflattering lights.

Jesus told the story of the Good Samaritan, I think most of us would try to help the man if we came up on him. We are just people that need to help other people.

 

[Blackbog]

:bigyikes: Blackbog’s statement reflects the thinking of Adolph Hitler. Clearly not legitimate reasons, given the fact that it reflects the belief that people of a despised ethnicity do not have the RIGHT to rise to positions of responsibility. He does not reflect Catholic teachings (in case anyone questions that )

No, that is incorrect, and what you have just posted is the typical false accusation of anti-Semitistm thrown around at people who are perfectly innocent of any anti-whateverism and just want to point out the truth.

What I in fact implied was that Jews do not have the right to ABUSE power and responsibility, just as no one does. They have every right to rise to positions of power and responsibility in society, so long as they assimilate into the host culture (provided that that culture is a Christian or otherwise morally sound one) and use that power and responsibility responsibly/morally licitly.

If I say that there is a tendency in black culture to make music that is denigrating to women, materialistic, etc., I am not saying that blacks do not have the right to make music.

Your accusation is simply an irrational, knee-jerk reaction to anything that could possibly construed as anti-Semitism.

Perhaps it also has something to do with jealousy of the Jewish tradition which values intellectual accomplishments, and the intellectually stultfying effect of some forms of Christianity?

Again, silly accusations.

 

[HashemEchad]

I haven’t read all the posts, so am only speaking for myself here…

I grew up in a predominently Jewish community. I love my Jewish friends, and over the years we have had the best discussions regarding religion that I’ve ever had. My Jewish friends are not remotely judgemental, and do understand what the Catholic religion teaches - and not only that, they have respect for it, as I do theirs.

And with only the deepest respect for my Jewish friends, they always understand and listen when I say that while they are waiting for their Messiah to come the first time, we are waiting for Him to come the second time, and that He is indeed the same Person.

And too, when I say that Christ came the first time, it was (so to speak) to champion us from the** inside first**, and rid us of original sin, making us worthy to be saved for all eternity, before He comes again. And although we can indeed make it to Heaven, we still have to prove ourselves worthy, and say no to that stinking serpent in the garden, many times a day sometimes…

Are you aware of what the NT teaches Christians about the olive tree, and not becoming puffed up with pride?

Also, as far as being responsible for Christ’s death, we all are - everytime we sin. I am of Roman descent, and am well aware that those who beat Him were the Roman guards, which sickens me - remembering too that He said, “Forgive them, Father.” He Who is alive at this very moment glorified Body and Soul, waiting for the right time to come back.

That was a wonderful post, and thank you for mentioning the olive tree analogy that Paul discusses in Romans 11. Too many Christians forget about it, and I wonder if Paul put it in there because he sensed that, as the church became more gentile, that might become an issue?

BTW when I was little, I was beaten up by 4 Catholic school girls as a ‘christ killer’. When I got home and my parents were cleaning me up, my mother and father explained to me what that was all about (I’d never heard of Jesus before, even though half my family was Catholic.) I’d certainly never been called a ‘christ killer’ before!

My mom said that as a kid in Catholic school (she is a convert to Judaism), she always felt guilty as an Italian because they said the Roman soldiers nailed Jesus to the cross. Evidently she did not pick up any antisemitic messages about Jews having done it (and to their credit, Italian-Americans are highly devoid of antisemitism…most antisemitic Catholics I’ve met were of Irish ancestry).

 

[HashemEchad]

Further I think alot of people have a hard time differentiating a group of people from a nation’s government. In my travels I have run up against such perception. Maybe some people today have preconceived notions about the current nation of Israel and the Jewish people, the same with Muslims and certain radical governments and even terrorists. Going back to WW2, posters would show Germans and Japanese in very unflattering lights.

This is exactly why many anti-zionist Orthodox Jews say that zionism is the number one cause of hatred of Jews in the world today.

 

[lak611]

They have every right to rise to positions of power and responsibility in society, so long as they assimilate into the host culture (provided that that culture is a Christian or otherwise morally sound one) and use that power and responsibility responsibly/morally licitly.

Why should Jews have to “assimilate in the host culture”? What gives Christians any right to be the “host culture”? Jews deserve just as much freedom to practice their religion as Christians. They do not need to assimilate into anything.

 

[Blackbog]

Why should Jews have to “assimilate in the host culture”? What gives Christians any right to be the “host culture”? Jews deserve just as much freedom to practice their religion as Christians. They do not need to assimilate into anything.

What this means is that no immigrant population has a right to infiltrate the highest institutions of any host culture, benefitting from whatever prosperity that host culture is responsible for cultivating, and then proceed to systematically attack the host culture’s values. In my mind, it is nothing short of criminal.

 

[Blackbog]

If you think I"m making this stuff up, here’s a fairly recent article straight from the Jewish press you might want to take a look at:

Jewish power dominates at Vanity Fair

Sure, Jewish success is not in and of itself a bad thing, as I mentioned before, but like I said earlier, no one has a right to abuse power and responsibility. Jews are not exempt.

Speaking of Vanity Fair, how about that recent photo shoot with Miley Cyrus? If peddling 15-year-olds as sex symbols is not systematically attacking our values, I don’t know what is. I need not point out the ethnicity of the photographer, Annie Liebowitz, to demonstrate my point, thuogh it certainly makes it easier.

 

[lak611]

What this means is that no immigrant population has a right to infiltrate the highest institutions of any host culture, benefitting from whatever prosperity that host culture is responsible for cultivating, and then proceed to systematically attack the host culture’s values. In my mind, it is nothing short of criminal.

Based on your theory here, all of us are criminals. After all, we attacked the Native Americans and took away most of their culture.

 

[lak611]

If you think I"m making this stuff up, here’s a fairly recent article straight from the Jewish press you might want to take a look at:

Jewish power dominates at Vanity Fair

Sure, Jewish success is not in and of itself a bad thing, as I mentioned before, but like I said earlier, no one has a right to abuse power and responsibility. Jews are not exempt.

Speaking of Vanity Fair, how about that recent photo shoot with Miley Cyrus? If peddling 15-year-olds as sex symbols is not systematically attacking our values, I don’t know what is. I need not point out the ethnicity of the photographer, Annie Liebowitz, to demonstrate my point, thuogh it certainly makes it easier.

Billy Ray Cyrus, Miley’s father, is not Jewish. He allowed all of that stuff. I doubt there was a “Jewish conspiracy” to get young girls to pose for pictures.

 

[Blackbog]

Based on your theory here, all of us are criminals. After all, we attacked the Native Americans and took away most of their culture.

The difference being that Europeans did not parasitically benefit from Native American culture and underhandedly attempt to peddle anti-Native American values to the Native Americans by subterfuge, but rather brought their own civilization with force. Perhaps wrong for its own reasons, but definitely distinct from what many Jews are doing in America.

 

[Blackbog]

Billy Ray Cyrus, Miley’s father, is not Jewish. He allowed all of that stuff. I doubt there was a “Jewish conspiracy” to get young girls to pose for pictures.

Well, at least you only doubt as opposed to outright deny. Perhaps your head isn’t completely buried in the sand.

 

[lak611]

The difference being that Europeans did not parasitically benefit from Native American culture and underhandedly attempt to peddle anti-Native American values to the Native Americans by subterfuge, but rather brought their own civilization with force. Perhaps wrong for its own reasons, but definitely distinct from what many Jews are doing in America.

Why do you separate Jews from other Europeans? What makes Christians have any more rights than Jews in America? The First Amendment guarantees freedom to practice religion, even if one’s religion is not Christian. Jews are just as much a part of American culture as Christians.

 

[fhansen]

I was reading a book recently that first came out in 1964, entitled, “The Anguish of the Jews–23 Centuries of Anti-Semitism” by Father Edward Flannery, c Paulist Press

In the book, Fr Flannery (A Roman Catholic priest)discusses the history of Christian anti-semitism, and puts forth a theory which I’d never heard before, and which sounded ludicrous at first, until I thought about it.

He says that some Christians who hate Jews intensely, do so because of deep-seated hatred of Christianity. In other words, they resent the restrictions Christianity puts upon them, and they subconsciously blame the Jews because Christianity originated with Judaism, and they see it as “safer” for them to hate Jews rather than admit they hate their own religion. Its what Freud used to refer to as “projecting”.

What do you think of this?

Trust your first impression. It’s ludicrous.

 

[East_and_West]

I was reading a book recently that first came out in 1964, entitled, “The Anguish of the Jews–23 Centuries of Anti-Semitism” by Father Edward Flannery, c Paulist Press

In the book, Fr Flannery (A Roman Catholic priest)discusses the history of Christian anti-semitism, and puts forth a theory which I’d never heard before, and which sounded ludicrous at first, until I thought about it.

He says that some Christians who hate Jews intensely, do so because of deep-seated hatred of Christianity. In other words, they resent the restrictions Christianity puts upon them, and they subconsciously blame the Jews because Christianity originated with Judaism, and they see it as “safer” for them to hate Jews rather than admit they hate their own religion. Its what Freud used to refer to as “projecting”.

What do you think of this?

I don’t think I buy it. I think that have been times that Christians have been anti-semetic because of the Jewish invovlement in the death of Christ. Although we are all guilty of Christ’s death people want a scape goat and the jews were a convenient target. Its not ok. Its not justifiable but it is what it is.

 

[Jerusha]

The difference being that Europeans did not parasitically benefit from Native American culture and underhandedly attempt to peddle anti-Native American values to the Native Americans by subterfuge, but rather brought their own civilization with force.

I disagree with you. They did both. The boarding schools were a tool of forced assimilation. Mormonism, a mockery of Native values and legends (as well as those of Catholics and Jews), has been imposed on Natives since its invention.

Pressure to assimilate accomplished through bigotry, can be placed upon any stigmatized minority, either Native or immigrant.

 

[MementoMori3283]

That was a wonderful post, and thank you for mentioning the olive tree analogy that Paul discusses in Romans 11. Too many Christians forget about it, and I wonder if Paul put it in there because he sensed that, as the church became more gentile, that might become an issue?

BTW when I was little, I was beaten up by 4 Catholic school girls as a ‘christ killer’. When I got home and my parents were cleaning me up, my mother and father explained to me what that was all about (I’d never heard of Jesus before, even though half my family was Catholic.) I’d certainly never been called a ‘christ killer’ before!

My mom said that as a kid in Catholic school (she is a convert to Judaism), she always felt guilty as an Italian because they said the Roman soldiers nailed Jesus to the cross. Evidently she did not pick up any antisemitic messages about Jews having done it (and to their credit, Italian-Americans are highly devoid of antisemitism…most antisemitic Catholics I’ve met were of Irish ancestry).

I think saying that your mother-and half your family- was Catholic and you never heard of Jesus, is like saying you are an Orthodox Jew but your four year old doesn’t know Torah.

I would say that she did not pick up any antisemitism in the Gospel, because it is understood by the overwhelming majority of all Catholics that we all played a part in the fall of man and the Passion of Christ. When “the Jews” are referenced in the Gospel, Catholics realize that it is understood in the context of the Pharisees and Sadduccees; those responsible for instruction and ministry to God’s children. For it to mean all Jews is reading what is not there.

 

[Lapell]

No, that is incorrect, and what you have just posted is the typical false accusation of anti-Semitistm thrown around at people who are perfectly innocent of any anti-whateverism and just want to point out the truth.

What I in fact implied was that Jews do not have the right to ABUSE power and responsibility, just as no one does. They have every right to rise to positions of power and responsibility in society, so long as they assimilate into the host culture (provided that that culture is a Christian or otherwise morally sound one) and use that power and responsibility responsibly/morally licitly.

If I say that there is a tendency in black culture to make music that is denigrating to women, materialistic, etc., I am not saying that blacks do not have the right to make music.

Your accusation is simply an irrational, knee-jerk reaction to anything that could possibly construed as anti-Semitism.

Again, silly accusations.

But in stating things the way you did, you seem to put a special emphasis on the Jews, and in a rather negative way. Why? And were you just repeating things you heard? Why didn’t you check that opinion in various sources, not just the ones which would make a point of always bashing the Jewish people?

 

[Lapell]

I was reading a book recently that first came out in 1964, entitled, “The Anguish of the Jews–23 Centuries of Anti-Semitism” by Father Edward Flannery, c Paulist Press

In the book, Fr Flannery (A Roman Catholic priest)discusses the history of Christian anti-semitism, and puts forth a theory which I’d never heard before, and which sounded ludicrous at first, until I thought about it.

He says that some Christians who hate Jews intensely, do so because of deep-seated hatred of Christianity. In other words, they resent the restrictions Christianity puts upon them, and they subconsciously blame the Jews because Christianity originated with Judaism, and they see it as “safer” for them to hate Jews rather than admit they hate their own religion. Its what Freud used to refer to as “projecting”.

What do you think of this?

To answer your opening question, HashemEchad, I find this rather possible at least in some judeophobic Christians, but certainly not in all of them. I believe there could be various “reasons”, so to speak, that could make someone judeophobic… (I found this word a good alternative to antisemitic.)