A prayer also for Protestants.

[ufamtobie]

(Luke,1: 28) Upon ariving the angel said to her: “Hail Mary Full of Grace! The Lord is with thee, Blessed art though amongst women.”

(Luke 1: 41-42)…Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and cried out in a loud voice. "Blest art tho amongst women and Blest is the fruit of your womb.

Now lets put the Rosary prayer together: Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with thee Blest art thou amongs women and blest is they fruit of thy womb.

The point i am trying to get across is Gabriel who was instructed by God to salute Virgin Mary and Elizabeth who was filled the the Holy Spirit and who Cried Out in a Loud Voice above, why can’t you protestants also say the ROSARY? It is in the Bible, its Biblical.

Name a prayer/salutation thats in the Bible that we Catholics don’t say/pray?

The answer is Faithful Catholics say the Bible word for word and through the Mysteries of the Rosary that are in the Bible we re-live the Bible from the Announciation to Our Lords Resurections.

The real qustion is, Since you Protestants are all about the Bible word for word name a prayer/salutation that is the Bible that you Protestants don’t say/pray? And why?

PS Protestants you won’t be worshiping Virgin Mary if you begin to say the Rosary. How so? Well Gabriel and Elizabeth and the Holy Spirit, did not, then you Protestants Won’t be worshiping Virgin Mary either. But I tell you this you will be worshiping Jesus In every Mystery of the Rosary. AMEN.

Ufam Tobie

 

[Eucharisted]

1. You’re using a fallacy: Generalization.
2. I used to think only Catholics prayed the Rosary, until I went to a Prayer Week and found out some non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians do pray the Rosary. It just has a different meaning for them, respectively.
3. For those on this board who are wondering what a Rosary is, here is a blog I wrote about it.

 

[Zenas]

You will never find a Protestant bible that translates Luke 1:28 to say “full of grace.” Instead they will say something like this:

KJV:

“Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.”

NASB:

“Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.”

NIV:

“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

ESV:

“Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”

HCSB:

“Rejoice, favored woman! The Lord is with you.”

The Message:

“Good morning! You’re beautiful with God’s beauty, Beautiful inside and out! God be with you.”

And so on! Therefore, Protestants don’t regard praying the Rosary as quoting the Bible. I don’t agree with these translations but most Protestants have a problem with “full of grace” because if they accept “full of grace” they may have to take another look at the Immaculate Conception, and pretty soon their notion of Mary as a sinner like all the rest of us begins to unravel.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

“Full of grace” is used in one translation of the verse.

And if the Hail Mary ended with Gabriel’s greeting, no Protestant would have a problem with it (except for, you know, addressing Mary in the same manner that one would address a deity). But find me where Gabriel referred to her as holy or asked her to intercede…that’s where the problem is.

 

[Zenas]

“Full of grace” is used in one translation of the verse.

And if the Hail Mary ended with Gabriel’s greeting, no Protestant would have a problem with it (except for, you know, addressing Mary in the same manner that one would address a deity). But find me where Gabriel referred to her as holy or asked her to intercede…that’s where the problem is.

Which translation uses “full of grace?” I have not found one.

The problem with “full of grace” is that it implies absence of sin, a concept that Protestants reject. If one is full of grace, there is no room in that person for any sin. That is why if you accept the “full of grace” translation, you must look at the possibility of the Immaculate Conception.

I don’t see why Grabriel would have to call Mary holy or ask her to intercede in order for us to do so. Surely, people have asked you to intercede for them via intercessory prayer. Asking Mary to intercede is the same thing. As far as being called “holy” is concerned, why shouldn’t the saints in Heaven be called holy? Remember, Mary wasn’t a saint in Heaven at the time of the Annunciation.

 

[JonNC]

Therefore, Protestants don’t regard praying the Rosary as quoting the Bible. I don’t agree with these translations but most Protestants have a problem with “full of grace” because if they accept “full of grace” they may have to take another look at the Immaculate Conception, and pretty soon their notion of Mary as a sinner like all the rest of us begins to unravel.

I would never deny that the BVM was full of Grace. And while I really have no problem with IC, others who believe in her fullness of grace, the Orthodox, for example, are not inclined toward the IC. So, the 2 don’t necessarily follow.

Jon

 

[ufamtobie]

1. You’re using a fallacy: Generalization.
2. I used to think only Catholics prayed the Rosary, until I went to a Prayer Week and found out some non-Catholic Christians and non-Christians do pray the Rosary. It just has a different meaning for them, respectively.
3. For those on this board who are wondering what a Rosary is, here is a blog I wrote about it.

Eucharisted,

Please, I am speaking to the Protestants on CAF! who don’t recite the rosary ok, so I am not using fallacy here!

Now, if I would of put that Protestants do not Pray the Rosary in the National Enquire, then I am generalizing, then it is fallacy. You know as well as I that Many Protestants here at CAF do not say the Rosary.

I Pray that they will.

Ufam Tobie.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

Which translation uses “full of grace?” I have not found one.

The problem with “full of grace” is that it implies absence of sin, a concept that Protestants reject. If one is full of grace, there is no room in that person for any sin. That is why if you accept the “full of grace” translation, you must look at the possibility of the Immaculate Conception.

I don’t see why Grabriel would have to call Mary holy or ask her to intercede in order for us to do so. Surely, people have asked you to intercede for them via intercessory prayer. Asking Mary to intercede is the same thing. As far as being called “holy” is concerned, why shouldn’t the saints in Heaven be called holy? Remember, Mary wasn’t a saint in Heaven at the time of the Annunciation.

The Wycliffe New Testament says:

And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

The literal translation says “endued with grace”, meaning that Mary was endowed with grace. Now if the philosophers want to banter back and forth over whether it meant that she was anointed with grace at that moment, beforehand, or to what extent, have at it. I’m not going to get into some cyberspace hair-splitting contest over this. It’ll go the same way it always goes. Protestant says “This in no way demonstrates that Mary was free of original sin”, Catholic says “You’re dense for rejecting the possibility”, Protestant says “I’m not going to risk my eternal soul on such a possibility”, Catholic says “How dare you insult Mary; you’ll be condemned for such a thing”, and then it snowballs…

 

[Zenas]

The Wycliffe New Testament says: And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Thank you for pointing that out. I wasn’t aware of it.

 

[Hajnalcsillag]

Thank you for pointing that out. I wasn’t aware of it.

You’re welcome.

 

[Cluny]

You will never find a Protestant bible that translates Luke 1:28 to say “full of grace.” Instead they will say something like this:

---

I would point out that the Greek word here is “kecharitomeni”, from the root “charis”, which elsewhere is translated “grace” in every Protestant version.

I suppose a literal, if uneuphonious rendering of KECHARITOMENI would be “all completely graced up”, or more elegantly, “full of grace.”

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I suppose a literal, if uneuphonious rendering of KECHARITOMENI would be “all completely graced up”, or more elegantly, “full of grace.”

I don’t know, I like the, “all completely graced up.”

Reminds me of a weightlifting term.

“That was a great set, I am all completely graced up”

Anyways can anyone tell me if this verse had always been translated as, “full of Grace”. And if it had, when it was changed to, “highly favored one” in non-Catholic bibles? Was, “full of Grace” accepted by the reformers?

God bless

 

[Zenas]

Anyways can anyone tell me if this verse had always been translated as, “full of Grace”. And if it had, when it was changed to, “highly favored one” in non-Catholic bibles? Was, “full of Grace” accepted by the reformers?

The English phrase “full of grace” comes directly from the Latin Vulgate which says “gratia plena.” This literally means “full of grace.” No doubt whatsoever in the translation. The Vulgate New Testament was compiled from Greek by St. Jerome and published about 400 A.D. The Greek term which Jerome translated “gratia plena” is “kecharitomene.”

The modern translators, which probably began with the King James Bible in 1611, went back to Greek and decided “kecharitomene” was better translated as “highly favored one” or words to that effect. See Post #3 above. I am not a Greek scholar so I cannot make the linguistic case for translating “kecharitomene.” I do, however, believe theological bias had a lot to do with the modern English renditions.