S
seekerz
Guest
Thank your for the link - it actually addressed some of my own questions on the matter, in a rational and dispassionate way - devoid of name-calling.
A priest recently told me that its his belief that women will be eventually ordained into the priesthood
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B
Bookcat
Guest
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
RESPONSUM AD PROPOSITUM DUBIUM
CONCERNING THE TEACHING
CONTAINED IN “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS”
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: Affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone, S.D.B.
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19951028_dubium-ordinatio-sac_en.html
Not a topic that admits of debate.
RESPONSUM AD PROPOSITUM DUBIUM
CONCERNING THE TEACHING
CONTAINED IN “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS”
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: Affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone, S.D.B.
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19951028_dubium-ordinatio-sac_en.html
Not a topic that admits of debate.
L
Lapey
Guest
There is no debate, the discussion is over. Women have their roles, it has and never will be ordained clerics. Its not that I won’t debate, or I won’t discuss; it is in fact that the Church will not. She has been disciplining clerics for much longer that you or I have been on earth for speaking out against truth.
I know what those terms are and mean. To speak out against the Church with obstinate rejection of Her lead, is in fact heresy and does cause schism.
As someone mentioned earlier, when a man can conceive and bear a child then I will agree that this truth can be changed. Until then my friend, lets choose a topic that is open for discussion.
L
LegoGE1947
Guest
Thanks, Lapey! Couldn’t have said it better myself. The Catechism paragraph 1577 says it even better "Only a baptized man validly receives sacred ordination. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by the choice made by The Lord himself. (He chose only men as his 12 Apostles) For this reason ordination of women is NOTpossible. (See also paragraph 1598). Anyone who has the idea that women can be validly ordained is smoking some “wacky tobaccy!”
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bill99
Guest
i hope the church dos not change its mind on this topic. i respect that t he church is taking st. pauls advice on this matter.
S
seekerz
Guest
What does men conceiving children have to do with women being ordained? Seriously, your ‘righteous indignation’ would be better spent addressing the questions raised in my post (as a different poster did) than by attacking me…but whatever makes your day.There is no debate, the discussion is over. Women have their roles, it has and never will be ordained clerics. Its not that I won’t debate, or I won’t discuss; it is in fact that the Church will not. She has been disciplining clerics for much longer that you or I have been on earth for speaking out against truth.
I know what those terms are and mean. To speak out against the Church with obstinate rejection of Her lead, is in fact heresy and does cause schism.
As someone mentioned earlier, when a man can conceive and bear a child then I will agree that this truth can be changed. Until then my friend, lets choose a topic that is open for discussion.
I do note with interest that your beef seems to be with what women can do vs what men can do, instead of where it should be: with what God gives the Church authority to do…
L
LegoGE1947
Guest
There are even Protestants who don’t believe in women being pastors. They are a minority though, unfortunately.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
RESPONSUM AD PROPOSITUM DUBIUM
CONCERNING THE TEACHING
CONTAINED IN “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS”
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: Affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone, S.D.B.
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19951028_dubium-ordinatio-sac_en.html
Such is Not a topic that admits of debate.
RESPONSUM AD PROPOSITUM DUBIUM
CONCERNING THE TEACHING
CONTAINED IN “ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS”
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: Affirmative.
This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.
The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the Ordinary Session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.
Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.
Joseph Card. Ratzinger
Prefect
Tarcisio Bertone, S.D.B.
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19951028_dubium-ordinatio-sac_en.html
Such is Not a topic that admits of debate.
O
Ohana
Guest
Whoa up here. Doctrine can indeed evolve. Dogma cannot.
While I am way more to the center than some here, I don’t think we will see women priests and I am not at all sure we should. I would like to see an order of deaconesses as ordained women. Many of our nuns/sisters are fulfilling some of the functions of such an order already. I think it would give them more recognized legitimacy in their ministries.
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seekerz
Guest
Debate is a discussion that looks at both sides; one does not have to reject or accept either side to raise points for or against. All it does is illuminate the issue, which this thread - despite the best efforts of the speech police - has managed to do for me. I debated in Catholic school, so obviously debate does not mean throwing away the truth - it simply means examining its meaning so you can establish personal belief rather than simply checking a box. Nowhere was I taught that there are matters not open to rational debate. Debate does not equal opposition or rejection or acceptance. It simply is one process by which people assimilate a topic.
I have seen people of faith debate the existence of God! Can this be instructive to people who doubt or reject Him? Absolutely. So why should I get my knickers in a twist over female ordination - unless maybe out of fear…?
Why would one come on a discussion board simply to tell people to shut up?
M
Moonbug
Guest
We really can’t make the statement that Christ never permitted women to be ministers and prophets (teachers) of the faith. On the contrary, there is strong evidence that he did. Much of this is documented in the Acts of the Apostles and Paul’s letters. When he sent the 72 in pairs out to preach to the people, there was no indication of their genders. St. Photini, The Samaritan woman at the well, became a devoted follower of Jesus, and after his death, became a great preacher and evangelizer of his teachings. She was eventually beheaded for her faith in Rome.by Nero.
There will be women priests in the future, and their will be women deacons starting with Pope Francis.
There will be women priests in the future, and their will be women deacons starting with Pope Francis.
M
Moonbug
Guest
We really can’t make the statement that Christ never permitted women to be ministers and prophets (teachers) of the faith. On the contrary, there is strong evidence that he did. Much of this is documented in the Acts of the Apostles and Paul’s letters. When he sent the 72 in pairs out to preach to the people, there was no indication of their genders. St. Photini, The Samaritan woman at the well, became a devoted follower of Jesus, and after his death, became a great preacher and evangelizer of his teachings. She was eventually beheaded for her faith in Rome.by Nero.
There will be women priests in the future, and their will be women deacons starting with Pope Francis.
There will be women priests in the future, and their will be women deacons starting with Pope Francis.
T
TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
There are women evangelists today and women with many important roles in the church,We really can’t make the statement that Christ never permitted women to be ministers and prophets (teachers) of the faith. On the contrary, there is strong evidence that he did. Much of this is documented in the Acts of the Apostles and Paul’s letters. When he sent the 72 in pairs out to preach to the people, there was no indication of their genders. St. Photini, The Samaritan woman at the well, became a devoted follower of Jesus, and after his death, became a great preacher and evangelizer of his teachings. She was eventually beheaded for her faith in Rome.by Nero.
There will be women priests in the future, and their will be women deacons starting with Pope Francis.
but there will never be women priests.
As a priest once explained, when a priest is saying mass, he is no longer Father so and
so, he is Jesus and Jesus was a man and thus anyone ordained a priest must also be
a man.
M
Moonbug
Guest
We really can’t make the statement that Christ never permitted women to be ministers and prophets (teachers) of the faith. On the contrary, there is strong evidence that he did. Much of this is documented in the Acts of the Apostles and Paul’s letters. When he sent the 72 in pairs out to preach to the people, there was no indication of their genders. St. Photini, The Samaritan woman at the well, became a devoted follower of Jesus, and after his death, became a great preacher and evangelizer of his teachings. She was eventually beheaded for her faith in Rome.by Nero.
There will be women priests in the future, and their will be women deacons starting with Pope Francis.
S
seekerz
Guest
I prefer the USCCB’s multi-part explanation, thank you very much. If I logically extend that statement," Jesus was a man", I can do nothing Jesus did because I am not, similarly, a man. Aren’t we all called to be Christ in our daily lives, does “whatsoever you do…unto me” apply only to poor/downtrodden men? I find that explanation rather perplexing.
T
TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
Are you deliberately re-posting your same posts? It’s a little childish to say the least. If
it was in error, I’m sorry.
it was in error, I’m sorry.
T
TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
I was speaking specifically about a priest offering Mass. Don’t “logically” extend that
anywhere else.
S
seekerz
Guest
And why not? It seems to me, if we’re going to argue that women’s ordination is wrong, our arguments need to make sense. Unless of course we plan on preaching only to the choir.
T
TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
Just what I said, at Mass Jesus (the priest in his stead) offers Himself to the Father in
the sacrifice that takes place.
And because it’s the only place where this occurs, it’s not “logical” to take it anywhere
else.
As for preaching to the choir, all of us would do well to read about the Sacrifice of the Mass
and maybe it would be clearer to all, as “the choir” would really understand the role of the
priest and be able to explain to the non-choir members.
the sacrifice that takes place.
And because it’s the only place where this occurs, it’s not “logical” to take it anywhere
else.
As for preaching to the choir, all of us would do well to read about the Sacrifice of the Mass
and maybe it would be clearer to all, as “the choir” would really understand the role of the
priest and be able to explain to the non-choir members.
M
Moonbug
Guest
There are no women in the Church today (hierarchy–the guys with the POWER) have it all… The priesthood, as we have it today, was derived from the Greek Church, who developed it from Paul’s Letter to the Hebrews. Paul didn’t write it. It is believed to have been written in Alexandra and was one of the first Christian documents written. But no one knows it’s origin. The grammar, style, and syntax is comparable to no other Christian writer. Written in Greek, it is considered the most polished of all the sacred writings. There has been much controversy about it. Some say it is worthy of being in the Cannon, some say not. It was the last document admitted to the Cannon around 400 A.D.
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