A priest told my husband an annulment is easy

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My husband of 11 yrs (and one beautiful child) wants to divorce and get an annulment.

Just last year on our anniversary he bought me a new diamond and told me to never question his love for me.

I am so confused and tired of crying. I thought that at least the church would tell him that being unhappy is not a reason to divorce. Never did I think a priest would be so cavalier as to tell him that the church has many reasons for granting annulment, just pick one.

There are so many layers to this, but I want to start by trying to understand in what cases annulments are granted. The rules I have read say that in 2005 the pope tightened the rules, but only ever so slightly. That you can ask for an annulment by stating that at the time of the marriage you didn’t fully understand the implications of marriage.

HUH?

Who really does until they are married. Its like saying you FULLY understand what is to happen in the FUTURE and what it will be like to actually live and breathe what you understand in an intellectual level. I dont think that it is possible to FULLY understand something until you experience it. You can comprehend it in a logical sense, but the emotional understanding comes with experience.

is it really so easy? can you just take such a cop out? We dated for a full SEVEN years before dating. We are both graduates of a well known engineering school. We knew and understood what Catholic marriage taught and was to be about. We were married and counseled by a Canon lawyer!

Please help someone. I am scared, crying, feeling pretty worthless. I have a young daughter with a learning disability. I quit my job - good job - at the CDC as a researcher when she started school. I have tried to do right by everyone and put myself last in the family.

I have not broken any vows, I haven’t betrayed the marriage in any way. He even said that he feels bad he can’t point the finger at anything I have done. It is him, he just feels that he won’t ever by happy with me.

The fact that he went behind my back to ask a priest how to get an annulment just hurt like a knife. I found out from my 7 yr old child. Daddy “went to talk to a priest about not being married anymore”. It is hard to be loving when someone hurts your child like that and betrays your trust. That priest told hiim that “the Church does not want people to be unhappy. the church does not like divorce, but understands it happens. You only have to get an annulment, and there are many many ways to get one”

As he tells it, they did not go into what specific grounds he thinks he qualifies for, but I want to know what are the MOST CURRENT grounds listed as valid reasons to grant an annulment.

sorry for rambling, I am very hurt and lost.
😦
 
vds4 said:
My husband of 11 yrs (and one beautiful child) wants to divorce and get an annulment.

Just last year on our anniversary he bought me a new diamond and told me to never question his love for me.

I am so confused and tired of crying. I thought that at least the church would tell him that being unhappy is not a reason to divorce. Never did I think a priest would be so cavalier as to tell him that the church has many reasons for granting annulment, just pick one.

There are so many layers to this, but I want to start by trying to understand in what cases annulments are granted. The rules I have read say that in 2005 the pope tightened the rules, but only ever so slightly. That you can ask for an annulment by stating that at the time of the marriage you didn’t fully understand the implications of marriage.

HUH?

Who really does until they are married. Its like saying you FULLY understand what is to happen in the FUTURE and what it will be like to actually live and breathe what you understand in an intellectual level. I dont think that it is possible to FULLY understand something until you experience it. You can comprehend it in a logical sense, but the emotional understanding comes with experience.

is it really so easy? can you just take such a cop out? We dated for a full SEVEN years before dating. We are both graduates of a well known engineering school. We knew and understood what Catholic marriage taught and was to be about. We were married and counseled by a Canon lawyer!

Please help someone. I am scared, crying, feeling pretty worthless. I have a young daughter with a learning disability. I quit my job - good job - at the CDC as a researcher when she started school. I have tried to do right by everyone and put myself last in the family.

I have not broken any vows, I haven’t betrayed the marriage in any way. He even said that he feels bad he can’t point the finger at anything I have done. It is him, he just feels that he won’t ever by happy with me.

The fact that he went behind my back to ask a priest how to get an annulment just hurt like a knife. I found out from my 7 yr old child. Daddy “went to talk to a priest about not being married anymore”. It is hard to be loving when someone hurts your child like that and betrays your trust. That priest told hiim that “the Church does not want people to be unhappy. the church does not like divorce, but understands it happens. You only have to get an annulment, and there are many many ways to get one”

As he tells it, they did not go into what specific grounds he thinks he qualifies for, but I want to know what are the MOST CURRENT grounds listed as valid reasons to grant an annulment.

sorry for rambling, I am very hurt and lost.
😦
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Marriage and annulments are far from simple and easy.

Put these two lines together and tell me if they fit?

“That you can ask for an annulment by stating that at the time of the marriage you didn’t fully understand the implications of marriage.”

“We dated for a full SEVEN years … We are both graduates of a well known engineering school. We knew and understood what Catholic marriage taught and was to be about. We were married and counseled by a Canon lawyer!”
 
I don’t know anything about annulments, but I am praying for you and your family. :signofcross:
 
I am so sorry that you are going through this difficult and trying time. I will add you to my prayer list.

The Decree of Nullity is not an easy process. Tribunals scrutinize each case to make sure they have a clear understanding of the mental, emotional state of a person at the time of marriage. I am reasonably sure they will take notice that you had been counseled by a Canon Lawyer before marriage (if I read that correctly), but who’s to say what the Tribunal will find.

There probably are no stats listing the most common reason for granting the Decree of Nullity. I am betting that is private and not published.

But each case is individually assessed and comes with it’s own determination.

Once again, I am so sorry.
 
Yes, you read that correctly, we were counseled and married by a Canon lawyer. I hope its OK to mention his name, Mnsgr. Stephen Churchwell (from the Atlanta, GA region).

My mom, a third order Carmelite, has advised me to go an talk to Fr. Churchwell. I can’t make myself. I wouldn’t get any words out. I just cry when I think aobout it. Its even hard to type. Plus I am ashamed that I am being discarded. Its humiliating. I know I should talk to him, but I haven’t seen him since he was transferred out of my former parish and we were actually working togehter on, of all things, the church wedding guild.

It also doesn’t make sense to say we did not understand marriage, yet dated for 7 yrs, were counseled by a canon lawyer, etc., but from what I read, that is the closest I can come to something he could give as grounds.

the other aspect of this is what is the inevitable for me. If he is going to divorce me, what choices do I have? I can’t stop him and yet I can’t go along with it. If I am divorced, I can’t even get communion as I understand it. I definitely can’t get remarried.

What happens when you are just thrown away like old garbage?

I would have to be alone and blocked from communion? That doesn’t seem fair, but it is what I have been told.

My husband was angry the other night when he told me that his opinion was that we should “work at being good friends, not hostily married”. First of all, the only person hostile is him. I have gone to tremendous lengths to not react to his attacks. I asked what about working towards being “happily married”. He said that he had tried and tried and it was not a possibility.

I have to admit I got angry then. I told him I was disappointed that he actually thought divorce was OK. We had no reason. Things in life are hard and we had discussed, at lenght, while dating that quitting when things got hard was not something we believed in. He said that he used to believe that but didn’t anymore.

I feel discouraged that divorce is just taken as an acceptable way out of tough times. I am saddened that he is saying he changed a fundamental component of his moral fiber that ALLOWED me to open myself up to giving this man my heart. I never would have given him a backwards glance if I didn’t really feel he subscribed to some core beliefs of mine.

So, again I am rambling. I guess now I am wondering if he can NOT get an annulment, what are the ramifications for me if I am divorced by him.

Do I get banned from communioin?

Do I have to spend my life alone. Not just getting remarried, my mother said I can’t even date. I have to honor my marriage vows even if he doesn’t honor his.

I can understand this, but it only compounds the feeling of despair.
 
First, let me tell you how sorry I am that you are going through this. I hope and pray your husband comes to his senses.

Second, even if your husband did file for a divorce and/or annullment, if you yourself remain faithful to your marriage vows (assuming no declaration of nullity is issued) then you are committing no sin whatsoever. You would still be perfectly free to receive communion.

Again, I’m terribly sorry. I will be praying for you and your husband. It sounds like he needs a divine whack upside the head a la Saul on the road to Damascus…

Margaret
 
vds4 said:
Yes, you read that correctly, we were counseled and married by a Canon lawyer. I hope its OK to mention his name, Mnsgr. Stephen Churchwell (from the Atlanta, GA region).

My mom, a third order Carmelite, has advised me to go an talk to Fr. Churchwell. I can’t make myself. I wouldn’t get any words out. I just cry when I think aobout it. Its even hard to type. Plus I am ashamed that I am being discarded. Its humiliating. I know I should talk to him, but I haven’t seen him since he was transferred out of my former parish and we were actually working togehter on, of all things, the church wedding guild.

It also doesn’t make sense to say we did not understand marriage, yet dated for 7 yrs, were counseled by a canon lawyer, etc., but from what I read, that is the closest I can come to something he could give as grounds.

the other aspect of this is what is the inevitable for me. If he is going to divorce me, what choices do I have? I can’t stop him and yet I can’t go along with it. If I am divorced, I can’t even get communion as I understand it. I definitely can’t get remarried.

What happens when you are just thrown away like old garbage?

I would have to be alone and blocked from communion? That doesn’t seem fair, but it is what I have been told.

My husband was angry the other night when he told me that his opinion was that we should “work at being good friends, not hostily married”. First of all, the only person hostile is him. I have gone to tremendous lengths to not react to his attacks. I asked what about working towards being “happily married”. He said that he had tried and tried and it was not a possibility.

I have to admit I got angry then. I told him I was disappointed that he actually thought divorce was OK. We had no reason. Things in life are hard and we had discussed, at lenght, while dating that quitting when things got hard was not something we believed in. He said that he used to believe that but didn’t anymore.

I feel discouraged that divorce is just taken as an acceptable way out of tough times. I am saddened that he is saying he changed a fundamental component of his moral fiber that ALLOWED me to open myself up to giving this man my heart. I never would have given him a backwards glance if I didn’t really feel he subscribed to some core beliefs of mine.

So, again I am rambling. I guess now I am wondering if he can NOT get an annulment, what are the ramifications for me if I am divorced by him.

Do I get banned from communioin?

Do I have to spend my life alone. Not just getting remarried, my mother said I can’t even date. I have to honor my marriage vows even if he doesn’t honor his.

I can understand this, but it only compounds the feeling of despair.
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You most definitely would NOT - repeat NOT - be unable to receive communion if your husband divorced you. The only circumstance in which that would apply would be if you, yourself, were civilly divorced and attempted remarriage without an annulment. There is still so much misinformation about that.

I am already praying for you, an honorable Catholic wife and mother who is trying to live up to her vows.
 
vds4 said:
So, again I am rambling. I guess now I am wondering if he can NOT get an annulment, what are the ramifications for me if I am divorced by him.

Do I get banned from Communion?

Do I have to spend my life alone. Not just getting remarried, my mother said I can’t even date. I have to honor my marriage vows even if he doesn’t honor his.

I can understand this, but it only compounds the feeling of despair.
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Here is the reality. If you divorce and do not get granted a Decree of Nullity, then you are still considered married by the Church. You are not free to date - you are married. Your mother is correct.

Yes, you can receive communion even if you are divorced.

It is a confusing time for you. Seek out your priest for consolation. Seek out God for help and comfort.
 
First, my prayers for you. I am sorry that you are going through such a terrible experience.

Next, a divorced person is NOT denied communion. Some people have even left the Church over this mistaken belief…it is NOT true. You could be divorced and still actively participate fully in the life of the Church, and reception of the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ would certainly be something you SHOULD do.

Now, on the other hand, people who divorce and REMARRY without having been granted a declaration of nullity may not receive the Eucharist.

Even though it is difficult, please do go speak with the monsignor, it will be most helpful and can hopefully ease your burden a bit.
 
PLEASE - I can’t stress this enough - you need to get this book and study it: Annulment: The Wedding That Was

This will help you understand the process, what it all means, and how the Church can declare a marriage null.

EDIT: sorry, didn’t have time to finish my post, I’m supposed to be working. :o

I will surely keep you all in my prayers, this has to be totally horrifying for you. I will PM you the name of an attorney who fights to keep Catholic marriages together - perhaps he can help you.

~Liza
 
I’m sorry to keeping asking questions, but I am trying to understand what I am facing.

IF my husband divorces me, is NOT granted an annulment, and I honor my marriage vows because I would still be married in the Church…then do I have the option to file for an annulment based on being abandoned?

It kind of brings me to my original question about grounds for annulment.

I do want to express that I really really don’t want him to even divorce me. I don’t want an annulment. I still love him and want our family to stay together. Yes, there are things that bother me about him, but I guess my view is that it is part of what long term love is. It is my choice to be loving to him even if he isn’t towards me. I get a lot of critiscm for this.

I am a scientist and most of my friends are, well, less “traditional” and think a woman of my education, etc should not “put up with” my husbands nonsense. He has left the house two times since January and not only do I let him come back, I keep asking him to.

I don’t know what is right anymore. It just doesn’t feel right to lash out and say it doesn’t matter to me that he wants to leave. It is humiliating, makes me feel horrible and worthless, but if I am not honest with myself, that I really did make a VOW to love him, good and bad - if I just walk away…it might feel good for a moment, that I am making him feel the pain he inflicted on me, but doesn’t that say God only has to love me when I am worthy?

If I want love all the time, don’t I have to give it all the time?? Whether the person “deserves” it or not? My friends think I am letting him make a fool of me.

So, when you answer - and I hope you do - the question about abandoment as grounds for ME to apply for an annulment, please understand that it is not what I want.

I want my marriage, I want my family. I’m just not sure it is something I will be ALLOWED to have by my husband’s choice.
 
vds4 said:
I’m sorry to keeping asking questions, but I am trying to understand what I am facing.

IF my husband divorces me, is NOT granted an annulment, and I honor my marriage vows because I would still be married in the Church…then do I have the option to file for an annulment based on being abandoned?

It kind of brings me to my original question about grounds for annulment.

I do want to express that I really really don’t want him to even divorce me. I don’t want an annulment. I still love him and want our family to stay together. Yes, there are things that bother me about him, but I guess my view is that it is part of what long term love is. It is my choice to be loving to him even if he isn’t towards me. I get a lot of critiscm for this.

I am a scientist and most of my friends are, well, less “traditional” and think a woman of my education, etc should not “put up with” my husbands nonsense. He has left the house two times since January and not only do I let him come back, I keep asking him to.

I don’t know what is right anymore. It just doesn’t feel right to lash out and say it doesn’t matter to me that he wants to leave. It is humiliating, makes me feel horrible and worthless, but if I am not honest with myself, that I really did make a VOW to love him, good and bad - if I just walk away…it might feel good for a moment, that I am making him feel the pain he inflicted on me, but doesn’t that say God only has to love me when I am worthy?

If I want love all the time, don’t I have to give it all the time?? Whether the person “deserves” it or not? My friends think I am letting him make a fool of me.

So, when you answer - and I hope you do - the question about abandoment as grounds for ME to apply for an annulment, please understand that it is not what I want.

I want my marriage, I want my family. I’m just not sure it is something I will be ALLOWED to have by my husband’s choice.
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Firstly, I want to say I’m sorry for what you are going through.

Secondly, there are several general grounds for an anulment - such as not consumating the marriage, coersion, not realising what you are getting into, being open to life, marying a close relative, one or both parties not being baptized (I think) and not having your marriage blessed by the Church. These have to be present at the time that you excahnged vows. I don’t think you can get an anulment if this is realized after the fact (i.e. he walks out on you randomly).

I’m neither a offical theologan or Canon lawyer. I would talk with your Canon laweyer friend and lay everything out in front of him. He will probably advise you in ways we can’t.
 
I am sorry you are going through this.

While the canon law is the same everywhere, the process and such varies from place to place. I have to admit watching the process here, the only real stipulation to get an annulment seems to be to pay some cash, the amount of which varies somewhat depending on your lot in life. The going rate seems to be $600.

It might seem to you that you’ve done nothing but let’s go through some of the acceptable reasons for annulment and how they commonly are used.
  1. Insufficient use of reason. I was insane, mentally ill, not able to reason. Not likely in your case.
  2. Grave lack of discretionary judgement. Unable to judge, something like a crises say a parent died and the woman married to be taken care of without discerning what marriage is. Again not likely used in your case.
  3. Ignorance of the nature of marriage. Used by people who say things like I didn’t realize marriage meant children. Again not likely.
  4. Wrong person. Very unlikely. Used in some mail order marriages where supposedly one person was contracted for marriage and another came.
  5. Error concerning a quality of a person. This is fairly likely. Your husband could argue he married you believing you were going to be a submissive wife for example, and now you don’t submit but your berate him and order him about and so on. Goes to the question of whether you misrepresented yourself before marriage and so he contracted marriage thinking he was getting someone much different.
  6. Fraud. Related to the previous. Comes down to one or the other deceived the other in order to get married.
  7. Willful exclusion of marriage. The idea is that you got married for some other reason than to be married. Most common is to legitimize a child. If you were pregnant when you married, he could argue the reason he married you wasn’t to marry you but to legitimize the child.
  8. Willful exclusion of children. You or he married intending to deny the other sexual acts open to procreation. If you’ve ever used birth control of any form, this is popular.
  9. Willful exclusion of marriage permanence. Either of you married intending for it not to be permanent but to retain an option to divorce. Note that this could be totally in his own mind. His current actions indicate that this actually was a possibility.
  10. There was a future condition attached to the marriage. Let’s say when you married, you intended to complete college at some point, but you haven’t. This would be grounds for annulment, he could argue he wouldn’t have married you if you weren’t going to complete your education.
  11. A past condition. The flip side of the previous. Maybe he thought you had a college degree and you didn’t. Or the person had a criminal record. Or anything in the past that if the person knew of it they would not have married.
  12. Present condition. Most common is I will marry you provided you are a virgin and you weren’t.
  13. Marriage was forced. An external physical or moral force made you marry. A shotgun wedding if literal. Pregnancy and the desire to be a father to the child. Those sorts of things.
  14. Fear. Grave inescapable fear resulted in the marriage. An example would be a woman who married to escape her parents, say due to physical or sexual abuse.
  15. Error in marital unity. One or both of you married thinking marriage was not an exclusive relationship. More common during the swinging 60’s where he could argue he thought that wife swapping was going to be the practice in your marriage.
  16. Error in marriage indissolubility. Basically one or both of you thought you could simply get divorced and be allowed to remarry.
  17. Error in sacramental dignity. You thought that marriage was simply a civil contract.
  18. Lack of new consent during covalidation. Let’s say you got married in a civil ceremony and then one or the other though it was just a blessing or formality to undergo covalidation.
That’s a really rough synopsis of the reasons for annulment. Canon law of course is more complicated than the simply listing I’ve given, but from the listing, I would venture you can likely guess which one or ones he will use. If someone is willing to lie, there isn’t a single marriage safe from annulment. Most everyone has the possibility of several of these, with the basic decision coming down to degree.

What happens a lot of times is the one spouse is basically in shock and just sits there thinking how can our marriage be annuled. If you want to prevent this, you have to get a canon lawyer and really, really fight, but even in those cases, the advantage seems to fall to the one desiring the annulment since they can claim their own understanding as the reason.

You may also decide from a pragmatic point of view to let him go and get his annulment and then be free to find a good man, not one controlled by his own selfishness.

JJ
 
vds4 said:
IF my husband divorces me, is NOT granted an annulment, and I honor my marriage vows because I would still be married in the Church…then do I have the option to file for an annulment based on being abandoned?
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That’s not how it works 😦 The annulment is granted based on the conditions that existed up to the wedding ceremony, if I understand it right. The question isn’t what’s happening now, but what might have happened then to make the marriage ceremony itself null and void. If he isn’t granted an annulment, I’m not sure that you can ask again… seems like they’d give the same answer.
 
Your strength during this situation is truly amazing. Keep taping into those graces God is giving you to get through this!

The only thing I have to offer you is my prayers and this one resource:

www.exceptionalmarriages.com

Dr. Popcak and his associates counsel via telephone and can conduct marriage therapy with just one spouse if the other is unwilling. He is very true to the faith and teachings of the Catholic Church. Him and his wife also have a call-in radio program on Ave Maria Radio which you can access on-line at:

www.avemariaradio.net

Their show airs at 12:00pm Eastern time Mon-Fri.

God bless!
 
I’m with Sister Snowflake on this. If you don’t feel “up” to speaking with the Monsignor, put it in writing (like you did here), and mail it off. That may actually even be better, as he can refer to it when you are speaking.

Also, you would have all your facts written down ~now~.

Interestingly, Joe Kennedy, who divorced his wife (an Episcopalian) and remarried received an annulment from his local Tribunal (I assume it was?)…well, Sheila, his wife left behind appealed it. It went to the Vatican and was reversed:

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/jun/07062101.html
 
DawnInTexas said:
Interestingly, Joe Kennedy, who divorced his wife (an Episcopalian) and remarried received an annulment from his local Tribunal (I assume it was?)…well, Sheila, his wife left behind appealed it. It went to the Vatican and was reversed:

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/jun/07062101.html
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While this is possible, it is extremely expensive (not saying it’s not worth it), and all the cost is the responsibility of the one requesting the appeal, including the cost to have all documents translated into whatever languages required for the appeal.

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
While this is possible, it is extremely expensive (not saying it’s not worth it), and all the cost is the responsibility of the one requesting the appeal, including the cost to have all documents translated into whatever languages required for the appeal.

~Liza
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Oh yeah? Well, she thought it worth every penny. I guess in this case, there was another God before the money-god.
 
It seems that if he is determined to get an annulment and divorce, there may be no TRUTH to his grounds, but since it is not possible to defend what your spouse TOLD you they believed about you, their morals, etc. They can always say that they actually believed something else in their own head. Seems kind of a dumb loophole. Sorry - no disrespect intended, just seems like why bother to have rules that have no “teeth”

Seems pretty hopeless.

I have to say that St. Jude and I are well acquianted. I turn to him alot for intervention. I also turn to Mary alot. It hurts to remember during our wedding my going over to the Marian altar and praying that she let me be a good wife and mother like she was. Again, the failure is so hard to swallow. I don’t have a choice though do I?

It is a very pragmatic suggestion to just not fight it if he wants an anullment. It would “free” me. I just find that hard to swallow. It means I don’t have HIM anymore. It means I never did. He even says he will stay if I INSIST. But he will hate me and resent me. How do you respond to that? Of course I don’t want him miserable - how can you love someone and want them miserable. On the other hand, I can NOT lie and say that I want to “be friends”.

There are two reasons on the list that I could see my husband citing as grounds. He said the other night that he thinks love is comprised of three components: friendship, emotional and physical. He said he only has friendship.

I could go on and on…as evidenced, but I guess the answer to my questions are this:
  1. if he wants a divorce, he will get one
  2. if he wants an annulment, he can find a priest to give it
  3. I have a choice whether to fight the annulment or encourage it - to free myself.
Its number 3 that I will struggle with. My own internal moral struggle to do what is best for me and what is best for my DAUGTHER.

It hurts to KNOW he thinks this will NOT affect her. it already is. I am always crying. You think she is not aware? Kids are not stupid, they are just small.

So, I will just have to excersise patience and forgiveness to a level I can not comprehend logically.
 
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