A priest wore only a stole over street clothes for a Mass I attended

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The issue isn’t so much the omission of a chasuble - it’s supposed to be worn (as the priestly vestment) but is sometimes omitted for practical reasons (if I’m on a school camp for example packing a chasuble isn’t likely to be that practical). The real issue is omitting the alb. Granted it doesn’t invalidate the mass but that’s just taking a lowest common denominator approach. It doesn’t matter if it’s hot (most albs aren’t that heavy), if it’s humid or if the air con is broken; the alb must always be worn when a priest is saying mass.
 
KMG said:
It’s not a priest’s individual decision to decide whether or not to wear a chasuble. It’s not an optional vestment.

Bishops in hot climates used to wear chasubles-dalmatics-tunics at Mass.
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And women used to wear corsets and umpteen layers of skirts in all climates - doesn’t mean I wouldn’t faint away in summer or that I should feel bound to attempt to do the same
 
But priests and others who live in hot climates get acclimatized to the weather conditions.

In the U.S., we are used to adjusting our indoor environments to a comfortable temperature and humidity level. Call it wimpy, or call it wise–that’s just what we do. And when something breaks downs and the A.C. or heat doesn’t work–it’s pretty awful.

There are many physical conditions that make it difficult for people to withstand heat; one example is Type II Diabetes, which many people have (and many don’t know that they have it). Also, certain meds can make the heat feel unbearable to some of us.
And any excess weight can make heat virtually unbearable.

I recommend compassion. The priest didn’t violate any rubrics. Leave him alone.
 
Peeps said:
I recommend compassion. The priest didn’t violate any rubrics. Leave him alone.
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I’m all for compassion but the priest did violate liturgical law and not in a small way either.
 
I had bowed out of this discussion …

Please read my above posts again. Thankyou.

I was not criticizing the priest.

muting now.
 
Peeps said:
There are many physical conditions that make it difficult for people to withstand heat; one example is Type II Diabetes, which many people have (and many don’t know that they have it). Also, certain meds can make the heat feel unbearable to some of us.
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Get tested and treat it. I was diagnosed with T2D a few months ago. Just today I was out in 90+ degree weather and all of a sudden began to feel unwell. I had to wet a paper towel and put under my ball cap to try to cool down. As it happened, I went to my attorney today and he commented that I didn’t look too good, looked like I’d gotten too hot. Took me most of the day to recover. I feel much better now.
 
well if the debate is how valid a mass is, if the priest isn’t wearing the proper vestment in the correct way, then I suppose the next logical discussion is how valid was the Eucharist / Mass , say directly after Christ Ascended into heaven, lets say, 2 years after. When there was no physical building out front that said Catholic Church Mass at 11am and no vestments even created.

I mean if we are going to be insane and nit pick, mine as well go to that extreme.

Ya got a poor priest whos AC was busted, in the sweltering heat, the vestments weigh at least 1.5lbs and he decided to not get into full vestments. Vestments are at best a uniform. More over, we mine as well debate if a priest has to wear full vestments while hearing confession. There are no seasonal vestments or religious garb, it is all made out of a heavy, non breathable fabric .

Kind of like debating if a cop is still a cop once he takes the uniform off, and then arrests someone off duty, who was breaking a law, yet he didnt have his uniform on.
 
And all this time, I thought Mass was about Jesus, not about what the priest wears.
Silly me.
 
Peeps said:
There are many physical conditions that make it difficult for people to withstand heat; one example is Type II Diabetes, which many people have (and many don’t know that they have it). Also, certain meds can make the heat feel unbearable to some of us.
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I can attest to that. I have well-controlled Type II diabetes. I’m 61 and fit, my wife and I did an 83 km bike ride yesterday at 27 km/h average speed, but alas I’m a victim of my genetics. I don’t use insulin, just three tablets per day. Yet my tolerance for both heat and cold has significantly deteriorated. Diabetics just don’t regulate temperature as well.

The Law is meant to serve Mankind, not Mankind serve the Law. Any Law that does not allow exceptions for human limitations is fundamentally unjust. Within reason of course! I’m not talking about being capricious, but actual physical/health limitations.

And as Catholics we have a fundamental obligation to charity and assuming the best in someone.
 
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Definitely not the same thing… I remember thinking it was scandalous when I found out that the Carmalites (high school) and Franciscans (college) who taught me would wear gym shorts under their habits during the summer. I know young priests that look forward to cassock weather in the Fall like many people look forward to sweater weather.
 
dconklin said:
I remember thinking it was scandalous when I found out that the Carmalites (high school) and Franciscans (college) who taught me would wear gym shorts under their habits during the summer.
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You want scandalous, I know some monks that only wear underwear under their habits in hot weather! The abbey dispenses with the cowl in summer.

The tradition in our Benedictine congregation is for black habits. However monks of our foundation in Senegal, Africa, wear white habits. Some “black” Benedictines in Africa also wear light grey habits. All in deference to the high heat and humidity.
 
PatK63 said:
I guess you have never seen pictures of priest saying mass on the battle field.
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Like this one? I’ve never been to Korea but I understand that there are two weather conditions: hot and humid or cold and wet.

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Or this one from the American Civil War:

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@MikeinVA

No. Of course if they have it they wear it. I remember a WRII scene. Thanks for your service!
 
OraLabora said:
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dconklin:
I remember thinking it was scandalous when I found out that the Carmalites (high school) and Franciscans (college) who taught me would wear gym shorts under their habits during the summer.
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You want scandalous, I know some monks that only wear underwear under their habits in hot weather! The abbey dispenses with the cowl in summer.
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This would seem to make more sense than dispensing with the vestment all together.
 
Vestments are not uniforms. They are part of liturgy and ritual. They are just as much a part of the Eucharist as a chalice. There are dire stories in the OT and Talmud about this sort of thing in Temple times, and it didn’t get more acceptable in NT times.

If street clothes were okay, the priest would still have to have specially blessed street clothes, don them in a special sequence with special prayers, never wear them outside of Mass on the actual street, etc. A thing used for God’s liturgical service cannot be used for any other purpose without grave sacrilege.

So yes, there are emergencies. But usually this kind of behavior just means somebody went to seminary in the Seventies or Sixties. For thousands of years, priests managed; but the Boomer generation was just more special - or rather, more badly taught.

And no, Confession only requires the stole, but it is not Mass or a liturgy. It has been common for hundreds of years. Paintings of priests wearing the stole over their cassocks to hear Confessions are very common.
 
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Priests should always be vested for Mass, unless some emergency prevents it.

When I was a kid I attended a small Byzantine parish that couldn’t afford AC. Our 70 year old priest would wear heavy vestments with little airflow, and celebrate a 90 minute liturgy in 95 degree weather.

I think good ol’ Fr. Bob will survive being fully vested.
 
I have much compassion for an elderly priest celebrating Mass in a very hot environment. I’ve been to Masses where I’m in the pews, vestments free, and pouring sweat. Our local churches rarely have AC (and admittedly it’s not generally required- just oddball days).
That said, I’ve been to Masses where the temperature was completely mild, and the priest still wasn’t wearing a chasuble. It makes me very uncomfortable. As far as I recall, I’ve only witnessed this with religious priests. Our diocesan priests tend to be more on the “traditional” side here.
 
Mintaka said:
Vestments are not uniforms. They are part of liturgy and ritual. They are just as much a part of the Eucharist as a chalice. There are dire stories in the OT and Talmud about this sort of thing in Temple times, and it didn’t get more acceptable in NT times.

If street clothes were okay, the priest would still have to have specially blessed street clothes, don them in a special sequence with special prayers, never wear them outside of Mass on the actual street, etc. A thing used for God’s liturgical service cannot be used for any other purpose without grave sacrilege.

So yes, there are emergencies. But usually this kind of behavior just means somebody went to seminary in the Seventies or Sixties. For thousands of years, priests managed; but the Boomer generation was just more special - or rather, more badly taught.

And no, Confession only requires the stole, but it is not Mass or a liturgy. It has been common for hundreds of years. Paintings of priests wearing the stole over their cassocks to hear Confessions are very common.
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Not sure why this was addressed to me. I agree with you. 🤔

My post was to point out that the particular photograph failed to make the point about priests wearing vestments in hot weather.
 
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