A priest wouldn't let me confess past sins

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Is this really Catholic teaching though? I admit there’s a lot I don’t know, but I will say I haven’t come across anything putting it that bluntly. Is there a catechism quote/canon law piece/encyclical/etc. that I don’t know about?
There are probably many things that you have yet to learn my brother. You are just beginning your journey through the maze of the Catholic faith. Fasten your seatbelt. 👍

This is just a summary of the theology of Holy Orders.

**1548 In the ecclesial service of the ordained minister, it is Christ himself who is present to his Church as Head of his Body, Shepherd of his flock, high priest of the redemptive sacrifice, Teacher of Truth. This is what the Church means by saying that the priest, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, acts in persona Christi Capitis:

It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly represents. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself (virtute ac persona ipsius Christi).

Christ is the source of all priesthood: the priest of the old law was a figure of Christ, and the priest of the new law acts in the person of Christ. **

This has been the Tradition of the Church since its foundation. The sins of the priest or his person do not account in the sacraments. The sacraments are effecacious regardless. The judgment of the priest is really the judgment of Christ.

Hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
I see. That is insightful indeed, but doesn’t it say that Christ is present, not that the priest actually literally and directly *is *Christ (as he literally is the Eucharist)?

I point out the distinction because in the latter case; the priest could not possibly speak an error, while in the former case, he could conceivably speak an error, but the validity and power of the sacrament would remain.
 
JR,

I’ve become quite interested in the relationship between penitent and confessor. I realize that one of your primary concerns is to defend, uphold, and strengthen the sound spiritual practice of joyful obedience to one’s confessor. I hope that my inquiry is not construed in anyway to oppose that project. I have a sincere question, however, regarding some practicalities.

Are all confessors is to be obeyed in all things, unless he counsels one to sin or otherwise opposes faith and morals? I am thinking of the following cases: the confessor does not know the penitent at all (i.e this is a “one shot” affair); the confessor does not know the salient facts of a situation either through lack of time, or the penitent withholding or misrepresenting; the confessor speaks on matters outside of his natural competence such as giving medical, financial, or legal advice.

If obedience is appropriate in the above situations, is it because a)the Holy Spirit makes up for the above defects in knowledge, or is it because b)even though the confessor is mistaken, God will bring good out of obedience?

If the above answer is b) that God will bring good out of obedience, even if the the advice is pragmatically unworthy or objectively incorrect – does this mean that a penitent following such advice will be safeguarded in practical matters? In other words, would a penitent following erroneous medical advice be protected from the natural consequences, or rather would a penitent perhaps suffer the negative physical consequences, although he may be enjoying the fruits of obedience?

If the answer to the above questions is that a penitent should obey his confessor in all things apart from errors in faith and morals, can you give us some insight in to the question of what to say to penitents who have already not followed such advice?

As a hypothetical, imagine a penitent who was counseled from entering religious life, and the confessor told him that he did not have a vocation to such. Imagine the penitent has disregarded the advice and has entered religious life, and has made final profession. Should the penitent now doubt that this was his first, and best, vocation?

Thank you for your time and opinions on the above,
VC
 
Verbumhas placed an important questionon the table that must be addressed at various theological levels. I’m not sure that I can do it justice in one post, but I’ll try.

One of the roles that the priest fills in confession is to be the alter Cristos. He is there in place of Christ. In Mystical Theology we say that he is the mirror of Christ. Through his ordination he undergoes an ontological change so that he has both human and divine powers. For example, the power to absolve from sin is a divine power. The power to consecrate is another.

When a priest in the confessional guides you on a matter that you are confessing, you are bound to obey him, provided that he is representing the Church and the Gospel. In the case where the priest tells the penitent that he does not have a vocation to religious life, a lot depends on what the penitent said first. The priest makes a judgment based on what the penitent tells him.

However, circumstances can change that advise is no longer valid and the individual is free to enter religious life. Let’s say that a person struggles with obedience, it is legitimate for the confessor to say that the person does not have a religious vocation. But down the road, this struggle is no longer present. That advise is no longer applicable. In other words, the advice of the confessor is only good as long as it is applicable, consistent with the Gospel and with the teachings of the Church.

There are times when a confessor may advise something that may sound inconsistent with the teachings of the Church, but is not really the case. We do not always know the full teaching of the Church on every issue. The Church does not always speak to every possible situation that comes up in life. She offers moral guidelines and the confessor applies those guidelines.

I’ll give you an example. A person has a habit of masturbation. The confessor may adivise the person to come once a month to confession and to continue to receive the Eucharist. He is following the moral guidelines of the Church. The guidelines say that a sin is mortal only if their is full freedom. If a person has an addiction, that person’s freedom is limited by the addiction or even not existent. Therefore, the person is doing something that is mortally sinful, but not guilty of the sin, because he has little or no control.

It’s like a child who pulls the trigger on a gun and kills someone. The child has committed murder. But the child is not guilty of murder, because of the age and the lack of self-control. He found a gun and decided to play cowboy or cops and robbers. There is no full knowledge and full control. The child is not guilty of sin, though he has committed a sinful act.

This is why it is adviseable to follow your confessor. Your confessor has insight into moral logic that is not common knowledge to the average person who has not studied theology and philosophy.

In the case of a confession that is a one shot deal, where the person and the confessor have never met, this makes the confessor’s job more difficult. He must go on what the person is saying.

As regards medical issues, the confessor responds according to the information that the penitent has at the time. If the information changes, then the advice may no longer be valid.

This is why a regular confessor or a regular spiritual director are valuable. Because this person sees you often and knows the changing circumstances in your life. He can give you the right advice as your situation changes.

I recently had a person in spiritual direction who was having a serious problem with prayer and mass attendance. In the past, this person was faithful to both. Due to changes in the person’s life stressors kicked in that were not there before. These stressors impair the person’s ability to pray and to attend mass regularly. The inattendance at mass and the diminished prayer life are not fully under the person’s control. He must first get the triggers under control. That becomes the focus of spiritual direction.

Those triggers are not of the person’s making. Therefore, the person is not guilty of sin. There is a moral duty to ty to solve the situation that interferes with the sacramental and prayer life of the individual. This happens to many people and they feel guilty because they are not praying or attending mass as they should. But until they get rid of the obstacles or reduce them, feeling guilty is not going to make prayer and mass happen. It’s like feeling guilty because you can’t attend mass when you have to take care of your sick mother. Until you can find an arrangement for someone to care for mother while you go to church, there is no sin involved and nothing to regret. You have not made a bad choice.

These are the kind of judgments that confessors and trained spiritual directors make every day.

If the confessor or spiritual director make a mistake an dish out advice based on what you tell them, but you did not try to deceive, neither you nor the confessor are morall guilty. Both acted on the best information available at the time. This applies to any moral situation.

The key is to choose the good based on the information that you have at the tme.

If the confessor has a particular theological leaning and leads you in that direction, you have two choices, you can trust his direction and obey, knowing that God will not hold you accountable for the advise the confessor gave you or you can find another confessor, just as you would a second opinion in medical cases.

What is never adviseable is multiple confessors, because it will only confuse you. Find one with whom you’re comfortable and stick with him. If your spiritual director is not a priest, he or she can point you to a confessor that you may feel comfortable with since he knows you.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
This is why a regular confessor or a regular spiritual director are valuable. Because this person sees you often and knows the changing circumstances in your life. He can give you the right advice as your situation changes.

What is never adviseable is multiple confessors, because it will only confuse you. Find one with whom you’re comfortable and stick with him. If your spiritual director is not a priest, he or she can point you to a confessor that you may feel comfortable with since he knows you.

🙂
This is such good advice. I have been in the situation for a few years where my regular confessor has been out of the country studying, only returning home twice a year. It has been difficult to find a confessor to go to in between his visits home. I just can’t find one that I am comfortable with on different levels. So I keep trying different ones and I never quite feel that the advice I receive in confession is adequate since they do not know me as well as my regular confessor does. The good news is that he should be home permanently in the spring.
 
Thank you for the thoughtful response JR.

You touched on several of my questions, but perhaps you can elaborate more on a few.

Would you hold we are bound to obey a confessor when the confessor speaks on matters outside of his natural competence such as giving medical, financial, or legal advice?

If obedience is appropriate in the above situations, is it because a)the Holy Spirit makes up for the above defects in knowledge, or is it because b)even though the confessor is mistaken, God will bring good out of obedience? To be more explicit: do you hold that a confessor’s defect in knowledge is corrected by the Holy Spirit so that he always gives good advice, or do you hold that a confessor might give bad advice, but following it will do no harm?

You mentioned that a well-meaning penitent who innocently acts on a confessor’s advice does not sin, which is clear, but my question is about *physical evil *that may befall a penitent who takes erroneous advice.

Thank you,
VC
 
The priest was “right,” AND “the priest was wrong.”

Let me 'splain!

He was right in that dealing with penitents and often with scrupulous ones (through no fault of their own…) it is safer to “cut them off” when old sins are brought up, for two reasons: 1) indulging a scrupulous conscience feeds a serious and painful illness–something he realizes is extremely difficult for the penitent and as the best course of action to help him, and 2), he reinforces the concept of forgiveness and trust IN the sacrament. I had a priest forbid ME in the same way, and it was because he said that it is a bit of “not trusting God.”

He was “wrong” perhaps in not hearing your desire to express your newly realized level of personal responsibility for the past sins–something that is often recommended as a “general confession” such as you might make when on a retreat or before a special occasion (before your wedding or ordination, or such).

HIS context for handling it was from a limited perspective - seeing you for such a brief moment, so he hazarded his best judgment about it.

Re confession: I not infrequently repeat the mantra “I believe in the forgiveness of sins” as a very consoling reassurance. I was extremely scrupulous at the time of my conversion, having come out of a family where there was nit-picking conditional love, so I know the pain AND THE PRIEST’S DIFFICULTY DEALING WITH scrupulous penitents. And there was only one remedy: to do LITERALLY WHAT THE PRIEST TOLD ME to do, and not second guess HIM. So given the level of pain and his love for his penitents, I do believe than most any priest would, in similar circumstances, opt for the safer path - i.e., to correctly tell you that if you had been sincere in including “all past sins” in your summary act of contrition, regardless of the fact you forgot at that time to mention even very serious things, that GOD KNEW you were sincere, and THAT is the essence of the sacrament.

My priest told me that not to accept that could be tantamount to not trusting God–to doubting Him. Which, of course, you would not do for one second. We tend to think about US instead of getting “into God’s shoes” about such things.
 
JR,

In addition to my restated question above, I wanted to ask about some particular examples:

How do you respond when a priest tells you:

who to vote for?
to put your child in public school?
to put your child in Catholic school?
to homeschool your child?
to avoid vaccinating your child?
to vaccinate your child?
to not take your medicine?
to plead guilty in court?

My suspicion is that one might be tempted to say that a penitent should disregard the above advice when the advice is inducement to sin (where we already established that counsel to sin is void). But, I think in many instances the above courses of action would not necessarily be sinful.

So the question remains, do we follow a confessors advice when he speaks outside of his natural competency, say in medical or legal matters, or in political matters, or in areas of prudential judgment?

Thank you!
VC
 
These stressors impair the person’s ability to pray and to attend mass regularly. The inattendance at mass and the diminished prayer life are not fully under the person’s control. He must first get the triggers under control. That becomes the focus of spiritual direction.
That’s certainly possible, so I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I would just like to point out that I think it is extremely rare that someone truly is in a situation that makes the mass obligation void.

Near where I live (so I understand this does not apply to all locations) there are masses in easy reach ranging from 5pm on Saturday to 7:30pm on Sunday. If a person can find 8 free hours to sleep during this time period; why can’t he find 1 free hour to go to mass? I know there are valid excuses… I just think they are very rare.
 
That’s certainly possible, so I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I would just like to point out that I think it is extremely rare that someone truly is in a situation that makes the mass obligation void.

Near where I live (so I understand this does not apply to all locations) there are masses in easy reach ranging from 5pm on Saturday to 7:30pm on Sunday. If a person can find 8 free hours to sleep during this time period; why can’t he find 1 free hour to go to mass? I know there are valid excuses… I just think they are very rare.
I believe you missed my point and the rule. I did not say that the obligation to celebrate liturgy is void. That is not the case. The individual’s culpability is diminished or non existent. There is a difference between a requirement becoming void and culpability. It is the job of the spiritual director to determine the latter.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JR,

In addition to my restated question above, I wanted to ask about some particular examples:

How do you respond when a priest tells you:

who to vote for?
to put your child in public school?
to put your child in Catholic school?
to homeschool your child?
to avoid vaccinating your child?
to vaccinate your child?
to not take your medicine?
to plead guilty in court?

My suspicion is that one might be tempted to say that a penitent should disregard the above advice when the advice is inducement to sin (where we already established that counsel to sin is void). But, I think in many instances the above courses of action would not necessarily be sinful.

So the question remains, do we follow a confessors advice when he speaks outside of his natural competency, say in medical or legal matters, or in political matters, or in areas of prudential judgment?

Thank you!
VC
Professional spiritual directors have found this to be one of the most challenging questions and I’ll try to synthesize the reason. The confessor has moral authority, but not juridical authority. I’m not going into an explanation of the difference, because that’s the stuff that you write textbooks on. There are many on that subject.

If the confessor believes that taking one of the courses of action that you have listed above is the moral good and the contrary action is the lesser good or even a moral evil, then you have to obey. But you’re not obeying because you have some kind of vow of obedience to the confessor. You are obeying because you have a moral obligation to choose the greater good at all times and the confessor has the moral obligation to point you toward the greater good according to his knowledge and prudential judgment.

For the sake of argument, let us assume that you obey and the situation gets worse. Neither you nor the confessor are culpable, because neither had the prior knowledge of what was going to happen.

Finally, the confessor reserves the right to withhold abosolution if any of these pieces of advice are prerequisites for a good confession. Let’s say that you commited a crime and he tells you that you have to turn yourself in to the police. The absollution is contingent on your obedience. As a judge who stands in the place of Christ he has the right to withhold absolution until you meet the terms for it.

The list that you provided is rarely material brought up in confession. I’ll avoid saying never. But there are other things. For example, I know someone who came to me for spiritual direction about a surgery during pregnancy that was sure to trigger a spontaneous abortion and her confessor told her to go for it. She was very upset. I helped the person understand that the confessor was not ordering her to get an abortion, but to save her life. I think I gave this example before.

That’s an example of a case where the situation is medical, but the problem is really a moral one. The confessor has the right to make a prudential judgment. If he tells the penitent that failure to get the heart bypass is a moral irresponsibility and thus a sin, the penitent has to obey. The confessor has the authority to tell the penitent what would be a sin and how to avoid it. The penitent has the obligation to obey. To do the contrary, is a sign that the peninent is willing to sin regardless.

It’s more than a matter of obeying the confessor, it’s a matter of doing the mroal good. If you are uncertain, you follow the confessor’s guidance.

Hope this answers your question.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JR,

I appreciate the thoughtfulness and thoroughness of your post.

I feel that I have a few points that are still unclear, and hope you can help me.
If the confessor believes that taking one of the courses of action that you have listed above is the moral good and the contrary action is the lesser good or even a moral evil, then you have to obey.
I don’t think we need to consider whether or not a penitent must obey a confessor who counsels them against a moral evil, so perhaps we can leave that aside. But you are saying, it seems, that we must obey a priest in confession who makes a prudential judgment between two morally licit courses of action because his judgment would be that course of action that is a greater moral good than another? Assuming that is what you are saying, here are my first two questions:

1. How do we know that a priest who makes a judgment between two morally licit courses of action always chooses the greater moral good?

**2. **If there is an assurance that every priest in *every *confession always advises the greater moral good in such cases, how does that result come about? Does the Holy Spirit make up for defects int he priest’s knowledge?
But you’re not obeying because you have some kind of vow of obedience to the confessor. You are obeying because you have a moral obligation to choose the greater good at all times and the confessor has the moral obligation to point you toward the greater good according to his knowledge and prudential judgment.
Let us grant, just for the sake of this post that we do have a moral obligation to always choose the greater good, and that the confessor has the moral obligation to identify that for us, here is my third question:

**3. **What does “according to his knowledge and prudential judgment” mean? What if the confessor’s knowledge and prudential judgment is inferior to the penitent’s? If a penitent has a moral obligation to choose the greater good, but the confessor fails in his obligation to identify it, shouldn’t the penitent still fulfill his own obligation?
For the sake of argument, let us assume that you obey and the situation gets worse. Neither you nor the confessor are culpable, because neither had the prior knowledge of what was going to happen.
I understand, but my question isn’t about culpability. I recognize that no one is culpable in these situations when a confessor gives advice in good faith and a penitent obeys in good faith. My question is ***4 **is the confessor always right? *Does he always make the right choice?
Finally, the confessor reserves the right to withhold abosolution if any of these pieces of advice are prerequisites for a good confession. Let’s say that you commited a crime and he tells you that you have to turn yourself in to the police. The absollution is contingent on your obedience. As a judge who stands in the place of Christ he has the right to withhold absolution until you meet the terms for it.
Again, for the sake of this post, I’ll defer on that point about conditional absolution. But it does remind me of one of my prior questions which I perhaps should clarify. I asked if a penitent must obey a confessor who advises him to plead guilty to a crime (not turn himself in). In other words, what if a penitent who is already in judicial proceedings is advised by a priest to plead guilty, even though he is advised by his lawyer (who we might assume has the proper legal competence and knowledge of the case) to plead “not guilty”?
The list that you provided is rarely material brought up in confession. I’ll avoid saying never.
I recognize that, but the fact that they could happen (and do!) brings me back to my overarching question. It seemed to me that your point was that penitents have an absolute obligation to obey all advice by every confessor, so long as it is not sinful. I thought if we could identify situations where penitents should not obey it might help us understand the *extent *of the obligation to obey.
But there are other things. For example, I know someone who came to me for spiritual direction about a surgery during pregnancy that was sure to trigger a spontaneous abortion and her confessor told her to go for it. She was very upset. I helped the person understand that the confessor was not ordering her to get an abortion, but to save her life. I think I gave this example before.
I must admit that I am surprised. Do you hold that a penitent is *morally obligated *to obey medical advice from a confessor? What if the confessor does not know the risk factors involved in the surgery? Or the other medical options?
The confessor has the right to make a prudential judgment. If he tells the penitent that failure to get the heart bypass is a moral irresponsibility and thus a sin, the penitent has to obey. The confessor has the authority to tell the penitent what would be a sin and how to avoid it. The penitent has the obligation to obey. To do the contrary, is a sign that the peninent is willing to sin regardless.
JR, I think this, again, is a case where a penitent must avoid sin. I am speaking of a penitent obeying advice where all the options are licit.
It’s more than a matter of obeying the confessor, it’s a matter of doing the mroal good. If you are uncertain, you follow the confessor’s guidance.
But what if I know that several options are morally licit, and I differ from the priest in *prudential judgment *regarding which is the best?

Thank you for your patience and assistance as I try to understand such a delicate and important topic.

VC
 
I’ll begin at the end of your post. You’re most welcome. Now to your next question.
JR,

1. How do we know that a priest who makes a judgment between two morally licit courses of action always chooses the greater moral good?
We never have that kind of certitude. If we have some knowledge about the situation that the priest has not put on the table, we have a moral obligation to do so at that time. This way the confessor can help us.
**2. **If there is an assurance that every priest in *every *confession always advises the greater moral good in such cases, how does that result come about? Does the Holy Spirit make up for defects int he priest’s knowledge?
Remembering that this is a sacrament and that it is Christ who is speaking, we also believe that Christ and the Church will provide for the falibility of the priest, provided that we have done our job to share with the priest what we also know, as I said above.
**3. **What does “according to his knowledge and prudential judgment” mean? What if the confessor’s knowledge and prudential judgment is inferior to the penitent’s? If a penitent has a moral obligation to choose the greater good, but the confessor fails in his obligation to identify it, shouldn’t the penitent still fulfill his own obligation?
I believe this was answered above. If you know of something that the priest does not bring to the table, you have a moral obligation to raise the question. Then it is up to the priest to answer it to the best of his ability. From that point on, you are free of all moral responsibility. The priest assumes that. You may leave the confessional in peace with the knowledge that you did your best under the circumstances and that you’re acting with a clear conscience. I’m assuming we’re speaking here of areas that are not veyr clear in moral law or dogma.
My question is ***4 ***is the confessor always right? Does he always make the right choice?
No, the confessor is not always right. The power of infalibiility is not imposed on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Many confessors gave horrible advice to the saints. But what sanctified the saints was their obedience. They became saints by their humility, not the wisdom of their confessors. The best a confessor can do is act in good faith and like you and me, pray that God will do the rest.
I asked if a penitent must obey a confessor who advises him to plead guilty to a crime (not turn himself in). In other words, what if a penitent who is already in judicial proceedings is advised by a priest to plead guilty, even though he is advised by his lawyer (who we might assume has the proper legal competence and knowledge of the case) to plead “not guilty”?
In legal matters the confessor has the obligation to demand that the penitent tell the truth, even if that truth will land him in jail. In these cases, the confessor is not trespassing into the legal arena. He is remaining in the moral arena, the arena of truth.
I recognize that, but the fact that they could happen (and do!) brings me back to my overarching question. It seemed to me that your point was that penitents have an absolute obligation to obey all advice by every confessor, so long as it is not sinful. I thought if we could identify situations where penitents should not obey it might help us understand the *extent *of the obligation to obey.
We are ogliged to obey unless the circumstances change or we have other information that the confessor does not. Sometimes we come across other information after the confession. In that case, we follow the greater good.
Do you hold that a penitent is *morally obligated *to obey medical advice from a confessor? What if the confessor does not know the risk factors involved in the surgery? Or the other medical options?
Most confessors do not, becasue they are not physicians. What they usually judge is the morality of the action. The question on the confessor’s mind is “Is this medical procedure immoral?” If the answer is “No.” The confessor usually advises you to follow medical advice.

The only question that the confessor has to ask is whether the procedure is immoral, not the consequences. The morality is determined by the action, not the outcome. If the action is good or indifferent and the outcome is not sure, then the Church is not concerned with the rest until it happens, if it happens. There are some actions that are morally wrong or dubious at best. Those can never be approved. It is morally good to save a person’s life as long as to do so you do not unjustifiably and unnecessarily compromise the life of another.

In the case where the pregnant mother needs a bypass surgery, the procedure in question is heart bypass. The confessor asks himself if this is morally permissible. The answer is, “Yes.” The next question is “Is it necessary now or can it wait?” If the answer is “Now.” The confessor’s answer is very clear. It is morally permissible and the procedure cannot wait. It is not a deliberate attempt against the unborn child. There is a risk to the child, but there are many risks to the unborn child if the procedure is not done.
JR, I think this, again, is a case where a penitent must avoid sin. I am speaking of a penitent obeying advice where all the options are licit.
Where all the options are licit, we have a moral obligation choose the greatest good.
But what if I know that several options are morally licit, and I differ from the priest in *prudential judgment *regarding which is the best?
That’s what a spiritual director does, help you form your conscience.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
When I became a Catholic in 1953 and ever since, it has always been my understanding that sins intended to be confessed that are forgotten, AND THAT ARE INCLUDED in the act of contrition by intention [the act is a part of the form of the sacrament] ARE INDEED forgiven by the words and actions of the priest, even if those sins are not explicitly identified.

I am quite confident that when a priest gives absolution he takes into account as fully as he can the disposition, the nuances of other-than-verbal communication, etc. as to the sincerity and intentions of the penitent. Hence in a representative of God’s mercy and in accordance with what he believes is God’s will for him in that situation, he is “right on track” and the penitent is forgiven for unmentioned sins that were intended to be told.

It is part of the issue of trusting God, as I see it, and this is not to make light of the details at all: but communication is much more than the words alone - psychologists tell us that words are only about 15% of what we are saying…
 
When I became a Catholic in 1953 and ever since, it has always been my understanding that sins intended to be confessed that are forgotten, AND THAT ARE INCLUDED in the act of contrition by intention [the act is a part of the form of the sacrament] ARE INDEED forgiven by the words and actions of the priest, even if those sins are not explicitly identified.

I am quite confident that when a priest gives absolution he takes into account as fully as he can the disposition, the nuances of other-than-verbal communication, etc. as to the sincerity and intentions of the penitent. Hence in a representative of God’s mercy and in accordance with what he believes is God’s will for him in that situation, he is “right on track” and the penitent is forgiven for unmentioned sins that were intended to be told.

It is part of the issue of trusting God, as I see it, and this is not to make light of the details at all: but communication is much more than the words alone - psychologists tell us that words are only about 15% of what we are saying…
George, this is also very true of the theology of the two sacraments: Holy Orders and Reconciliation.

The priest speaks for Christ. Christ wants to save and to forgive. Therefore, we can trust him.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
JR,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I’ve taken some time to think it over. I’d like to clarify some points.
If we have some knowledge about the situation that the priest has not put on the table, we have a moral obligation to do so at that time. This way the confessor can help us.
I’m not clear on your assertion that we have a moral obligation to correct a confessor’s defect in knowledge. If a confessor proffers unsolicited advice on a subject in which he is not competent, why would a moral obligation to inform the confessor of all salient information attach? I can understand if someone sought advice and then withheld important information, but why would unsolicited advice cause a penitent to be morally obligated to reveal personal information, which exists quite apart from that required to confess and receive absolution, and/or become a tutor in a confessional?
I believe this was answered above. If you know of something that the priest does not bring to the table, you have a moral obligation to raise the question. Then it is up to the priest to answer it to the best of his ability. From that point on, you are free of all moral responsibility.
Yes, in regard to moral responsibility. But, as I have mentioned before, I am not speaking of moral responsibility for following bad advice.I am speaking about the prudence in following bad advice.IF the advice is erroneous, does God mitigate the physical evil that results in following it?
No, the confessor is not always right. The power of infalibiility is not imposed on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Many confessors gave horrible advice to the saints. But what sanctified the saints was their obedience. They became saints by their humility, not the wisdom of their confessors. The best a confessor can do is act in good faith and like you and me, pray that God will do the rest.
Right. I assume though that the saints sought advice from a regular confessor? Furthermore, although we are all called to become saints – surely heroic acts of obedience are not mandatory for all. Perhaps it would be laudable to indiscriminately follow all advice given in a confessional, but is it *mandatory? *On pain of sin?
In legal matters the confessor has the obligation to demand that the penitent tell the truth, even if that truth will land him in jail. In these cases, the confessor is not trespassing into the legal arena. He is remaining in the moral arena, the arena of truth.
JR, this is an excellent example of what I mean. There is no moral obligation to plead “guilty” in a court of law. A plea of “not guilty” is not a lie, and it may be the most prudent course of action available to someone (regardless of whether or not the committed the material act for which they are charged). If a confessor is confused, because of their lack of legal training, between the concept of pleading not guilty and lying, and a penitent has no reason to suspect the confusion and therefore no reason to correct it, untold damage could be done by following a confessors advice, correct? Even if the penitent were aware of a confessor’s confusion on this point, why would a penitent be obligated to explain (and perhaps even argue!) with a confessor that he is in error? Could he not simply choose to disregard the non-competent advice?
We are ogliged to obey unless the circumstances change or we have other information that the confessor does not. Sometimes we come across other information after the confession. In that case, we follow the greater good.
Again, why are we obliged to obey regarding advice (perhaps unsolicited) that has nothing to do with confession of sins?

As for discover information post-advice that changes circumstances, why would not that same principle apply when we *possess *information that the confessor does not have and that would be burdensome to reveal (either because we don’t want to reveal it, or because it would take too long within the confines of a confessional situation to get the confessor up to speed)?
** Most** confessors do not, becasue they are not physicians. What they usually judge is the morality of the action. The question on the confessor’s mind is “Is this medical procedure immoral?” If the answer is “No.” The confessor usually advises you to follow medical advice.
JR, its clear the one has a moral obligation to avoid immoral actions, regardless of what a confessor’s advice is. It makes sense to trust a confessor’s moral evaluation if one is uncertain whether an act is licit or not. But you qualified your answer by saying that *most *confessors usually don’t give medical advice. So if they do, you don’t have to follow it right?

I understand that you wish to show the reasonableness in following a confessor’s advice,and perhaps that should be one’s basic orientation. I am trying to explore this position’s parameters. It seems to me that it should be qualified that, along with ignoring advice which would incite one to sin, some advice outside of the competency of the confessor can be safely ignored. Furthermore I question whether obedience to a confessor is morally obligated, and not rather more of a counsel of perfection.

I welcome your thoughts.
VC
 
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