A Problem Related to Prayer

[ThePuppyTurtle]

It would seem that one of the following two statements must be true.

1: It is useless, or at least unnecessary, to pray for those in a life of mortal sin.

2: God sometimes foregoes acceptable action which would make the difference between a person in a life of mortal sin entering heaven and being damned to hell, meaning he is not all-loving, as a loving God surely would take all acceptable actions to prevent eternal damnation.

Both possibilities seem unacceptable, yet for either one to be false, the other must be true.

 

[edward_george]

I think both are based on flawed propositions. Elaborate on why you think it’s useless or unnecessary to pray for those in a life of mortal sin. The letter of James tells us that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, and Paul enjoins us to make supplication for one another, and to pray without ceasing. At the very least, we are urged to pray for one another, full stop, without qualification, as a part of being a loving member of the Body of Christ.

God is all-loving and shows this in not obliterating our free will. If God were to prevent someone from damnation, this would not be respecting the person’s free will–which God gave them, and thus he would be contradicting himself by doing so. Damnation is not something God forces upon anyone or wills for anyone from the time of their creation, but rather they choose it for themselves over the will of God. To die in a state of mortal sin unrepentant is to deny the mercy of God; the unforgivable sin spoken of in Scripture is simply denying that your sins can be forgiven.

Hence, it is absolutely necessary that we pray for all people, and particularly those mired in mortal sin, that they will see the light and embrace the love of the Father, who calls all to himself.

-ACEGC

 

[ThePuppyTurtle]

I think both are based on flawed propositions. Elaborate on why you think it’s useless or unnecessary to pray for those in a life of mortal sin. The letter of James tells us that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, and Paul enjoins us to make supplication for one another, and to pray without ceasing. At the very least, we are urged to pray for one another, full stop, without qualification, as a part of being a loving member of the Body of Christ.

God is all-loving and shows this in not obliterating our free will. If God were to prevent someone from damnation, this would not be respecting the person’s free will–which God gave them, and thus he would be contradicting himself by doing so. Damnation is not something God forces upon anyone or wills for anyone from the time of their creation, but rather they choose it for themselves over the will of God. To die in a state of mortal sin unrepentant is to deny the mercy of God; the unforgivable sin spoken of in Scripture is simply denying that your sins can be forgiven.

Hence, it is absolutely necessary that we pray for all people, and particularly those mired in mortal sin, that they will see the light and embrace the love of the Father, who calls all to himself.

-ACEGC

If prayer works, it is because it has caused God to do something he wouldn’t have otherwise done, but would consider acceptable to do. Hence, if prayer for those in mortal sin can make a difference, than it must be the case that it has caused God to perform some acceptable action which he would not have otherwise performed. This means that when we DON’T pray, God foregoes acceptable action which would make the difference between heaven and hell for a person, and allows them to go to hell despite the fact that he could have acted in a way which would have led to their salvation without having to do anything acceptable. Unless sufficient proportionate reason exists, which it doesn’t seem to here, this would seem to preclude the idea that he loves that person as much as possible.

Free will is irrelevant because we are talking about actions which God IS willing to perform in the event or a prayer.

 

[john330]

Do you mean that it is useless to pray because God will give grace to the sinner whether we pray or not? And the other idea is that prayer is necessary because it can change God’s mind about saving a sinner from hell?

 

[oldcelt]

I think both are based on flawed propositions. Elaborate on why you think it’s useless or unnecessary to pray for those in a life of mortal sin. The letter of James tells us that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, and Paul enjoins us to make supplication for one another, and to pray without ceasing. At the very least, we are urged to pray for one another, full stop, without qualification, as a part of being a loving member of the Body of Christ.

**God is all-loving and shows this in not obliterating our free will. If God were to prevent someone from damnation, this would not be respecting the person’s free will–which God gave them, and thus he would be contradicting himself by doing so. Damnation is not something God forces upon anyone or wills for anyone from the time of their creation, but rather they choose it for themselves over the will of God. To die in a state of mortal sin unrepentant is to deny the mercy of God; the unforgivable sin spoken of in Scripture is simply denying that your sins can be forgiven. **

Hence, it is absolutely necessary that we pray for all people, and particularly those mired in mortal sin, that they will see the light and embrace the love of the Father, who calls all to himself.

-ACEGC

And the Christian God, being omniscient, knew in advance that the person he was creating would be condemned to Hell before that person was even born…yet he created them anyhow. It is impossible to have a God who is both all loving and omniscient.

 

[oldcelt]

If prayer works, it is because it has caused God to do something he wouldn’t have otherwise done, but would consider acceptable to do. Hence, if prayer for those in mortal sin can make a difference, than it must be the case that it has caused God to perform some acceptable action which he would not have otherwise performed. This means that when we DON’T pray, God foregoes acceptable action which would make the difference between heaven and hell for a person, and allows them to go to hell despite the fact that he could have acted in a way which would have led to their salvation without having to do anything acceptable. Unless sufficient proportionate reason exists, which it doesn’t seem to here, this would seem to preclude the idea that he loves that person as much as possible.

Free will is irrelevant because we are talking about actions which God IS willing to perform in the event or a prayer.

Add to that, if he rescues one, but not another…what would that mean?