A problem with God sharing our pain

[Valke2]

I find the concept of God sharing our pain – a concept that is found in both Judaism and Christainity – troubling. How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, to facilitate empathy for humans, without impining on the beliefe of divine omnipotence or even opening the door for human moral weakness being viewed as a component of God.

Christians have to address (have addressed) this issue when teaching of Jesus’ divine suffering on the cross. Jew’s need to address the issue when believing that God makes Himself vunerable by participating in Israel’s suffering and redemption.

 

[HailMary]

How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, to facilitate empathy for humans, without impining on the beliefe of divine omnipotence or even opening the door for human moral weakness being viewed as a component of God.

The second person of the Most Holy Trinity is full-human, and fully-divine. Thats the mystery of the Incarnation.

 

[mercygate]

I find the concept of God sharing our pain – a concept that is found in both Judaism and Christainity – troubling. How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, to facilitate empathy for humans, without impining on the beliefe of divine omnipotence or even opening the door for human moral weakness being viewed as a component of God.

Christians have to address (have addressed) this issue when teaching of Jesus’ divine suffering on the cross. Jew’s need to address the issue when believing that God makes Himself vunerable by participating in Israel’s suffering and redemption.

Maybe my long Christian consciousness colors my feeling that this is not a troubling problem, even for Jews, because of the spousal imagery that defines the relationship between God and His people.

Our human personhood is fulfilled in living according to God’s plan for us. The “humanizing” of God is a way of expressing this in human terms by describing how our shortcomings hurt the divine plan for our purpose and our ultimate End in Him.

Someone I know once said, “Only God is fully human.” The “suffering” of God is a statement about the relationship between God and his people but from our side, not His.

 

[ralphinal]

I am not Jewish, so i cannot speak from that point of view. I may be oversimplifying the answer, but I think that the answer is that He doesn’t. I think that the terms used for how God “feels” are used to make humans understand. Part of the covenant God has with Isreal is that they are His people and He is thier God, so the suffering of His people would touch him in a special way.

 

[Publisher]

I would think that the very nature of Love would be to share in the suffering of our Beloved…God shares in our pain so we may “complete the suffering of Christ.” We are bound together in this Ocean of Light and Love.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I find the concept of God sharing our pain – a concept that is found in both Judaism and Christainity – troubling. How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, to facilitate empathy for humans, without impining on the beliefe of divine omnipotence or even opening the door for human moral weakness being viewed as a component of God.

Christians have to address (have addressed) this issue when teaching of Jesus’ divine suffering on the cross. Jew’s need to address the issue when believing that God makes Himself vunerable by participating in Israel’s suffering and redemption.

Without even invoking Christianity, I suppose that God could simply choose to share in the pain. In other words, in a supreme act of omnipotence he could possibly choose to forego his omnipotence out of love for the sake of humanity.

Me personally, once someone arrives at this conclusion, the steps toward a Christian faith become much easier to take. But that’s just my thoughts on the matter. I do personally beleive that God kind of forsook his omnipotence out of love to incarnate and dwell amonst humanity so that he might understand humanity better and draw them into himself.
Hebrews 4:14-16:

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

PS: Deuteronomy 32:39-41 may be an indication of something going on too. If one is examining the Scriptures from a non-trinitarian perspective, I’ve never been able to see exactly how God can lift his hand to heaven if indeed he is already in heaven looking down on earth.
Deuteronomy 32:39-41:

"See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.

I lift my hand to heaven and declare:
As surely as I live forever,
when I sharpen my flashing sword
and my hand grasps it in judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries
and repay those who hate me.

 

[water]

Re: A problem with God sharing our pain

He has stopped me from complaining “what does He know how much pain I am going through right now?”

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I find the concept of God sharing our pain – a concept that is found in both Judaism and Christainity – troubling. How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, to facilitate empathy for humans, without impining on the beliefe of divine omnipotence or even opening the door for human moral weakness being viewed as a component of God.

Christians have to address (have addressed) this issue when teaching of Jesus’ divine suffering on the cross. Jew’s need to address the issue when believing that God makes Himself vunerable by participating in Israel’s suffering and redemption.

Are you a parent? I find if I look at my son and when he has problems they are my problems and pain, I feel them through my love for my son.

I think God made us parents so we can feel a tiny bit of how He feels. How it is to watch your child suffer, laugh have fun, grow and learn, not to mention when they tell you they hate you and never want to talk to you again.

Just a insight into Gods world.

 

[Valke2]

Are you a parent? I find if I look at my son and when he has problems they are my problems and pain, I feel them through my love for my son.

I think God made us parents so we can feel a tiny bit of how He feels. How it is to watch your child suffer, laugh have fun, grow and learn, not to mention when they tell you they hate you and never want to talk to you again.

Just a insight into Gods world.

My issue is not that God wants to share our pain. But that to do so, we have to get a little fuzzy with the omnipotence attribute of God. When we speak of God sharing our pain, we are humanizing Him. Human and Omnipotence (sp?) are contradictory.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

My issue is not that God wants to share our pain. But that to do so, we have to get a little fuzzy with the omnipotence attribute of God. When we speak of God sharing our pain, we are humanizing Him. Human and Omnipotence (sp?) are contradictory.

As a mother I am omnipotent somedays

but Im also a mother and care deeply.​

Maybe its better to think, Dad is tough and Mother is the love, God is both.​

Jesus was Lord to His disiples but He was also a friend.​

We are capable of love and caring because we are made in Gods image.

We can “see” things a lot clearer than those who dont believe in God.​

Dont forget if we are made in His image, then the human is part of Him, Hes not like us but we are being made like Him. There is no weakness in God.

Thats just a vicious rumour spread by that red dude in the other thread.

 

[mercygate]

My issue is not that God wants to share our pain. But that to do so, we have to get a little fuzzy with the omnipotence attribute of God. When we speak of God sharing our pain, we are humanizing Him. Human and Omnipotence (sp?) are contradictory.

It seems to me that we are not so much humanizing Him as that He communicates with us in terms we can understand. He communicates with us through the Scriptures, using images of love, even spousal love, to help us understand His essence. The ‘humanizing’ is a concession to our limitations.

 

[homewardbound]

Why do we assume feelings are only a human thing? God made us in His image, yes? Therefore I would think that means He also passed onto us some other things…like the ability to feel and love.

The Bible says God turned His head away as Jesus died on the cross, making it obvious that feeling is not reserved only for humans. I think emotions are a gift from God(and this coming from a person who feels emotion way too much trust me), so of course He can understand and share our pain.

I think sometimes we try to complicate things too much.

 

[Joyousguard]

This is an understanding given in revelation to the mystic Julian of Norwich

Sin harms us and since it harms us it upsets God. However God can not be upset nor can He be offended in anyway. This understanding creates a paradox, since the reason God is hurt by our sins is because sins hurt us. But at the same time we know that we are incapable of harming God because this would infer that we could change God in some way or affect Him somehow which we know not to be true.

This understanding is the best that finite human beings can hope to come to in explaining the infinite God. It is put into terms that are not quite accuarrate because they are contrary to one another. However, this understanding is the best thus far that humanity is able to comprehend in our meger understanding. We attempt to use our own sense of reason and rational to understand the infinite.

In the real theological understanding God can not be effected in anyway by man’s actions. Therefore our understanding of the effects of sin upon God are reduced to something that we can at least grasp in some minute form because it becomes clear that there is something we don’t understand. Now keeping this in mind, we truly do not understand exactly, but we do have a half understanding.

Let me explain further. Mary asks us to pray to her for the wounded heart of Jesus, the very famous painting of the heart of Jesus with the thorns around it. Now Mary is asking us to pray to her for the “wounded heart” of Jesus but we know full well that we can not effect God nor harm Him in any manner let alone wound Him. This concept of the wounded heart of Jesus is the closest thing possible to us being able to understand the true infinite understanding. It’s similiar to explaining the causes of the Civil war to kids as simply slavery. They are not able to understand the much more difficult explaination at that point in their lives.

Julian of Norwich was given these revelations by God. However, the education of Julian was very limited as demonstarted by the lack of proper grammer in his writings. It also might stand to reason that part of the difficulty in the revelation from God lies in the fact that Julian was not able to understand it and thus was not able to articulate it as well as it was spoken to Him. Or simply put he was not able to express the true explanation in words that woiuld allow for all of us to comprehend and are thus left with an example that is contrary to our theological understanding but none the less completely understandable at the same time.

This might not completely make sense and if need be Ill rewrite it in an attempt to clarify

 

[Valke2]

NIcely done.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I find the concept of God sharing our pain – a concept that is found in both Judaism and Christainity – troubling. How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, to facilitate empathy for humans, without impining on the beliefe of divine omnipotence or even opening the door for human moral weakness being viewed as a component of God.

Christians have to address (have addressed) this issue when teaching of Jesus’ divine suffering on the cross. Jew’s need to address the issue when believing that God makes Himself vunerable by participating in Israel’s suffering and redemption.

My personal thought is that God shares our pain for the same reason we exist, because He has chosen too.

God is God, and can do, feel, be whatever He wishes. Limiting Him to everything that is not human is in fact you defining what God is or should not be.

 

[dparker]

Are you a parent? I find if I look at my son and when he has problems they are my problems and pain, I feel them through my love for my son.

I think God made us parents so we can feel a tiny bit of how He feels. How it is to watch your child suffer, laugh have fun, grow and learn, not to mention when they tell you they hate you and never want to talk to you again.

Just a insight into Gods world.

Thank you for that. As a father of five, I see much truth in this.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Thank you for that. As a father of five, I see much truth in this.

Ive often wondered if God gets a headache “this big” with the lot of us but He still loves us as a Father loves His children. Its helped me understand God from His side of things being a parent.

 

[water]

As human beings, we cannot understand how much pain God has to go through when we sin. By allowing His Only Beloved Son to die on the Cross, we understand His pain humanly.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**How can the personhood of God be humaniezed, **

AHA! Now you’re catching on to what the Incarnation is about!

 

[Valke2]

I understand the explanation that is given in Christianity. But it still remians problematic or paradoxical. We can cause God pain and yet God is unchangeable. Unalterable. So we cannot alter God. But we can cause God pain?