A problem with transgender theory

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Bruised_Reed said:
I think I agree that one can change one’s sex but can change their physical appearance through surgery, hormones, and how they dress to match or fit with one’s gender.
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Unless you have missed out the word “not” in that sentence you are are wrong.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to change your sex. Chopping off a penis and wearing a dress does not make you a female.
You remain forever what you were biologically born.
 
Expatreprocedit said:
Any statistical study I’ve ever seen shows a great prevalence of male-to-female transgenderism over female-to male. Why should that be if it is a matter of people finding their true gender identity. Wouldn’t we expect the numbers to be roughly equal?

ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Prevalence/Reports/Prevalence%20of%20Transsexualism.pdf
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As long as we’re exploring unproven theories, I’ll throw out my own theory on why the two numbers differ: the female hormone estrogen pollutes the environment at a higher rate than male hormones pollute the environment.

For years our society has been pouring artificial hormones into women via artificial contraception, and some of those artificial sources of estrogen enters the environment via things like water. Some men may be highly sensitive to exposure to female hormones, thus exposure from environment pollution may leave them confused.

That’s my theory. There may be some biological explanation behind some men feeling like they are women because we have polluted our environment through widespread use of contraception.

(If you think my theory about environmental pollution as cause of gender confusion is crazy, do a quick search about what environmental pollution can do to reproductive characteristics of frogs and fish.)
 
thistle said:
Unless you have missed out the word “not” in that sentence you are are wrong.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to change your sex. Chopping off a penis and wearing a dress does not make you a female.
You remain forever what you were biologically born.
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Nope. I didn’t leave out a word. You are focusing on genitals only and ignoring the brain. I don’t pretend that I understand it but I am willing to listen to the experience of transgender persons.
 
DarkLight said:
It seems at least plausible to me that there could be some variety of intersex disorder that causes gender dysmorphia. We don’t really know a whole lot about fetal development and the process of sexual dimorphism. It’s at least plausible, for example, that androgenization of the brain could somehow fail to develop properly in an otherwise healthy xy individual.
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That’s what I think as well.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Nope. I didn’t leave out a word. You are focusing on genitals only and ignoring the brain. I don’t pretend that I understand it but I am willing to listen to the experience of transgender persons.
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The brain is not relevant. It does not matter at all what a person thinks or feels. If a person is biologically born a male they remain that forever.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to change a person’s sex.

Such people are mentally disordered which is probably why this group has the highest attempted and actual suicide rates in the world.
 
A possible reason based on one of the gender theories is that it’s less acceptable for a boy to be girly.

For example, a young girl behaving like a boy won’t be strange. Parents still treat the girl as a girl. Nobody found it weird that I insisted on dressing like a boy for the first decade of my life. I was still raised as a girl. No confusion. I was sure that I was a girl, just not a girly girl.

However, a young boy behaving like a girl will receive a lot of negative attention. He will be told that he is behaving like a girl, and that boys don’t do this. Naturally, his preference for femininity will be labeled as something wrong. A boy growing up in thag environment will either ditch it or feel confused about his gender (“why am I not like a real boy”).

This is obviously a simple reason but I don’t see why this isn’t being talked about as much.
 
My problem with transgender theory is this: despite a person being male by any measurable test, we are supposed to accept that he is “really” female, just as we accept that what looks like bread and wine by any measurable test is really the body and blood of Christ. (Reverse the words “male” and “female” if you’re talking about a so-called “female to male.”) The latter is something we accept on faith because our religion teaches us so. The former is also religious in nature, because one is accepted in the same way as the other.

I, for one, refuse to accept their religion as true.
 
Expatreprocedit said:
I would never gainsay that it is a cross for them to carry. What motivated my question is that I constantly hear that it is simply a matter of trans people finding their “true” identity.
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I don’t know what “true identity” means. But in some cases, “transitioning” is pursued as a means (albeit an horrendous means) to ameliorate a kind of mental anguish and suffering. And I should think there is nothing “simple” about it.
 
mathematoons said:
My problem with transgender theory is this: despite a person being male by any measurable test, we are supposed to accept that he is “really” female,…
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The bolded bit is meaningless, so feel no pressure to accept it.

The situation of many persons suffering with dysphoria is that they experience a strong lack of congruence between their evident body (sex) and their mental sense of themselves.
 
Rau said:
The bolded bit is meaningless, so feel no pressure to accept it.

The situation of many persons suffering with dysphoria is that they experience a strong lack of congruence between their evident body (sex) and their mental sense of themselves.
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And why should feelings take priority over the solid body, particularly in situations such as athletics that are all about solid bodies?

The issue should not be how someone feels about themself but whether it is fair for a male-bodied athlete to dominate a female athletic event.

ICXC NIKA
 
To add in a couple more possible explanations for the imbalance.

1: Blind chance. It happens eventually.

2: Could it be a rare recessive gene linked to the X chromosome? I’ll grant it’s not as percentually lopsided as color blindness, but I’m spitballing this.
 
GEddie said:
And why should feelings take priority over the solid body, particularly in situations such as athletics that are all about solid bodies?

The issue should not be how someone feels about themself but whether it is fair for a male-bodied athlete to dominate a female athletic event.

ICXC NIKA
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I think those are two different issues.

We can use science to determine the truth behind being transgender. As someone else said, our understanding of the development of sexual dimorphism isn’t complete. And it takes in everything; I don’t find it implausible that you might be plummed one way but your brain didn’t end up that way. There have been some studies showing that male to female transgendered have consistently similar brain structure to each other; and that this brain structure is different from non transgendered males.

Now, all that said, how we treat the transgendered is a different story. We must treat them with love and dignity. It doesn’t mean that we have to let the transgendered female compete in a female sporting event.

The culture may well demand this. But as I frequently explain to my kids “fair” doesn’t equal ‘same’.

We still have to work this out for the best of all parties. Right now, it seems the only cultural acceptable thing to do is cover your eyes and pretend there are no differences physically. This is ludicrous, and potentially unjust.

Both sides in this issue have to settle down and look at the objective reality of the issue.
 
Rau said:
You should define the “topic” unambiguously before making such a dogmatic statement.
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Agreed but I would go a step further: why don’t we, particularly those of us who are Catholic (or other Christians for that matter) stop analyzing people so much?

I’m reminded of this post from a recent thread:
It’s not your place to analyze my experience, and it’s extremely difficult for me to even talk about it. Please keep your analyses and opinions to yourself. Please.
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There’s already issues in sporting events because of things like androgen insensitivity syndrome. The individual has xy chromosomes but develops as a mostly phenotypical female. However the individual still produces testosterone like a man. Often the insensitivity isn’t 100% complete, meaning these individuals can still have things like increased muscle mass from the extra testosterone. There have been several cases of star female athletes turning out to have this syndrome.
 
Peter_J said:
Agreed but I would go a step further: why don’t we, particularly those of us who are Catholic (or other Christians for that matter) stop analyzing people so much?

I’m reminded of this post from a recent thread:
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We’re analyzing a phenomenon, not individual people. But you seem to think we should just let others “analyze” for us, and tell us what to think.
 
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