A protestant former pastor friend, saved?

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mercygate said:
So how do you explain all the good works done by people who have never accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior?
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There are a lot of good hearted people in the world that are not Christians. Just because a person is not a Christian does not make them a bad person. It just means the in the eyes of God they are a lost person.
So how would you explain all the good works done by non christian people. Well maybe it was their up bring, or maybe it was just the grace of God that made them very nice people.
 
allischalmers said:
There are a lot of good hearted people in the world that are not Christians. Just because a person is not a Christian does not make them a bad person. It just means the in the eyes of God they are a lost person.
So how would you explain all the good works done by non christian people. Well maybe it was their up bring, or maybe it was just the grace of God that made them very nice people.
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Tidy. So tidy that it only fits half the Gospel/NT passages about the relationship between faith and salvation.
 
I would have to shout an infinite “YES!!!”😃

In the United States Catholic Catechism for s it addresses this issue in two chapters that I know of. First in Chapter 11 The Four Marks of the Church. I like the way it’s explained in this chapter and how we are connected as brothers and sisters in Christ. CCC 832,846-847

In Chapter 15 *** Baptism***, it discusses how we are Bonded to Other Christians referencing to the CCC no.1271. What is so amazing to me and I quote from paragraph 1257 The Necessity of Baptism **“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.” **

Don’t forget too, that there is a baptism of desire that is validated in the eyes of God. Only He alone knows the hearts of men and He is the ULTIMATE Just & Righteous Judge.
 
allischalmers said:
So how would you explain all the good works done by non christian people. Well maybe it was their up bring, or maybe it was just the grace of God that made them very nice people.
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Like Al Capone chucking dollars to homeless people? I’m sure he’d tell you the rather simple psychology.

Mr Capone was unusually blatant, but not different in kind from most people.
 
allischalmers said:
There are a lot of good hearted people in the world that are not Christians. Just because a person is not a Christian does not make them a bad person. It just means the in the eyes of God they are a lost person.
So how would you explain all the good works done by non christian people. Well maybe it was their up bring, or maybe it was just the grace of God that made them very nice people.
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"OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION"

From the USCC
This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do no know Christ and his Church:

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Chris or hisChurch, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it throgh the dictates of their conscience–those too may achieve eternal salvation” (LG, no.16; df. DS 3866-3872)
 
TraditionalCath said:
We have a good friend who is a former protestant pastor. he is a really kind man, and he is elderly. his love for Jesus is astounding to say the least. it really is.
What is the exact position of the Church on matters like this?
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His claim to have received an assurance of salvation is almost certainly false, if he is one of those Protestants who hold to that theology. His claim to have no need of the sacrament of confession is, at best, self-deluding and extremely dangerous.

However since he is still alive he hasn’t lost his salvation. If and when he dies you can still pray for him. The teaching that there is no salvation outside of the Church isn’t meant to be used as a threat against people born into schismatic sects, it is a comment on the worldly practises and theological claims of such sects.
 
scylla said:
We cannot tell or judge that he will go to hell so it is all up to God not up to us.

If he does have an open heart and mind for Jesus then there is a chance he will be saved by accepting what the Catholic Church teaches, which is the reality of God’s truth in heaven. God always gives chances to those of good will.

Does he recognize Jesus present in the Eucharist? Jesus said that his followers would acknowlege Him before men. So does this man acknowledge the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist?

This doesn’t exclude him from Salvation, unless he rejects the very same Jesus up until the time of his judgement. I believe those who are sincere will have the truth revealed to them and they will have a chance to accept it as God is infinitely merciful.

Now if they obstinantly persist until their judgement then they wont acknowledge Jesus even when they are face to face with Him at their judgement. It is pretty hard to change your mind if it is so set in it’s ways, so pray for him.
Humility is changing yourself to reality and changing to revealed reality.

If this guy is truly sincere, just pray for him and keep being a good witness to Jesus and keep inviting Him to get closer to Jesus.

In Christ,
Scylla

The only way of salvation is through Jesus and all people will be Catholic in heaven, or else truth doesn’t matter.
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“For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” -Romans 10:3,4
:bible1:1 John 005:013 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
 
TraditionalCath said:
Why wouldn’t he be sincere? :confused: I’ve known him for 4 years! He is a wonderful person, and he was a pastor for many many decades, so how can he not be sincere??? if you knew him you wouldn’t even wonder. but since you don’t, you’ll have to take my word for it. hard to do when you don’t know me either.

Semper, your absolutely correct!
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I understand, and we cannot judge a man’s heart. Only God can judge so we must pray for all men, no matter how sincere they might seem.
Of course I do not know him or know you, yet I have talked to dozens of Pastors and have never found a sincere one, once I get into a deep discussion, or else they would be investigating Catholicism. No one can deny Catholicism honestly, as it is God’s truth so every rejection must require denial or ignorance.

So all we can do is pray for them and ourselves, as narrow is the path.

In Christ
Scylla
 
truthnlight said:
“For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” -Romans 10:3,4
:bible1:1 John 005:013 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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Now these are great quotes, yet we must read the whole Bible as Jesus first came to teach us, so we must not ignore the words of our Lord. I believe Paul was inspired by God, so was John.

Who’s words are more important, the words of Jesus or the Apostles? They both are important but who do we listen to first and do we ignore Jesus?

In Christ
Scylla
 
TraditionalCath said:
QUOTE scylla
“If this guy is truly sincere, just pray for him and keep being a good witness to Jesus and keep inviting Him to get closer to Jesus.”

Why wouldn’t he be sincere? :confused: I’ve known him for 4 years! He is a wonderful person, and he was a pastor for many many decades, so how can he not be sincere??? if you knew him you wouldn’t even wonder. but since you don’t, you’ll have to take my word for it. hard to do when you don’t know me either.

Semper, your absolutely correct!
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Why even bother asking for other people’s opinions when you already know that it is up to God and that he is saved?
 
scylla said:
Now these are great quotes, yet we must read the whole Bible as Jesus first came to teach us, so we must not ignore the words of our Lord. I believe Paul was inspired by God, so was John.

Who’s words are more important, the words of Jesus or the Apostles? They both are important but who do we listen to first and do we ignore Jesus?

In Christ
Scylla
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In other words if what Jesus said contradicts what an apostle wrote then what Jesus said takes precedence over what an apostle said even though what that apostle wrote was Jesus speaking through the apostle
 
allischalmers said:
In other words if what Jesus said contradicts what an apostle wrote then what Jesus said takes precedence over what an apostle said even though what that apostle wrote was Jesus speaking through the apostle
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I’ve never read any where in which the apostles contradicted Jesus. Sometimes, because people take verses out of context it appears that there are contradictions but when you read the text as a whole, not just in broken segments, it all is remarkably consistent.
 
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