A protestant question: Faith without acts is dead?

[Bookcat]

And I snipped out part of what you wrote in the big post in this case --due to not needing to comment on it.

 

[crazzeto]

I very carefully read what you wrote and responded bit by bit. I have not ignored context. I have explained that the use there of the term “work” is confusing. Please read again what I wrote…

Appearance …

So what one could then conclude is that one is justified initially by ones works (in part)…which would be the wrong conclusion.
I am not saying you are saying such - but such use can bring such confusion on the matter

No, because in very clear words I said that isn’t what I was trying to say. As I said, I offer an incomplete picture which excludes grace all together. As I said my answer completely ignores grace. More over, as I stated (again, many times) works are performed at the prompting of Grace. So that grace always comes first. I am instead, stressing the response.

 

[crazzeto]

This is why I"m bowing out, I feel like what your looking for in my responses is a complete picture of justification. If that’s what your looking for, you won’t find it.

 

[Bookcat]

Without this particular work (the act of bringing them there, and deciding to do this) they would not have the grace of baptism at this time (they may choose later to do it on their own). There are works involved.

1. Calling the cooperation (prior to initial justification) with grace --by the grace before grace-- a “work” is to confuse the issue of “faith and works”.
2. It can lead one to believe one is saying that ones “works” earn ones entry into initial justification (salvation) (which was part of the original question).
3. It can lead one to believe that “repentance” etc “earns” justification.
4. It can lead one to think that entering into “justification” depends on our possible good works.

It is not that the person who is not an infant is not involved --that we do not cooperate with our free will (by the help of God) …but that I would not call such “works” here --for it can bring a wrong (unintended) understanding.

That had been part of what I have been trying to get at.

 

[crazzeto]

1. Calling the cooperation (prior to initial justification) with grace --by the grace before grace-- a “work” is to confuse the issue of “faith and works”.
2. It can lead one to believe one is saying that ones “works” earn ones entry into initial justification (salvation) (which was part of the original question).
3. It can lead one to believe that “repentance” etc “earns” justification.
4. It can lead one to think that entering into “justification” depends on our possible good works.

I tis not that the person who is not an infant is not involved --that we do not cooperate with our free will (by the help of God) …but that I would not call such “works” here --for it can bring a wrong (unintended) understanding.

That had been part of what I have been trying to get at.

Ok.