A question about a discussion onThe Eucharist

[Annie39]

I had a discussion with a fundamentalist regarding the Eucharist. She told me that she agrees that when Jesus said “This is My Body” that a real miracle happened, that the bread and wine did become the Body and Blood of our Lord but she doesn’t believe that that miracle was “passed on”. If we ever discuss this again I would like to have a good reply. The first time I just stood there with my mouth agape (we were on the phone). I had never heard that kind of mental gymnastics before. I thought that I would post it here to see if some of you folks have some ideas.

Annie

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I had a discussion with a fundamentalist regarding the Eucharist. She told me that she agrees that when Jesus said “This is My Body” that a real miracle happened, that the bread and wine did become the Body and Blood of our Lord but she doesn’t believe that that miracle was “passed on”. If we ever discuss this again I would like to have a good reply. The first time I just stood there with my mouth agape (we were on the phone). I had never heard that kind of mental gymnastics before. I thought that I would post it here to see if some of you folks have some ideas.

Annie

Jesus also said, " do this in memory of me, " and " whoever does not eat my flesh will have no life in him, " and " do all that I have commanded you, " and " you are Peter and on this rock I will found my Church, " and " feed my children ( three times). "

Linus2nd

 

[Annie39]

Jesus also said, " do this in memory of me, " and " whoever does not eat my flesh will have no life in him, " and " do all that I have commanded you, " and " you are Peter and on this rock I will found my Church, " and " feed my children ( three times). "

Linus2nd

Thanks Linus. I remember now that I managed to say that Jesus said “do this in memory of Me”. She just said I know. I wish I had thought to quote “whoever does not eat…”. I wonder how she would reply to that.

Annie

 

[sousley]

I would suggest that St. Paul gave instruction to the Corinthian Church about the celebration of the Lord’s Supper in 1 Cor 11. And remember that Paul wasn’t even present for the first one!

Also, the this “remembrance” is not to be understood in the way we typically think of it today. It is not intended as a nostalgic recall of memory. This remembrance is spoken of using the same type of covenant language as the remembrance of the passover for the Jews.
It is to be observed in act (not memory) as a means to “make present again” (the correct meaning of re-present) so as to allow the faithful to participate with God in the divine mystery.

 

[Annie39]

I would suggest that St. Paul gave instruction to the Corinthian Church about the celebration of the Lord’s Supper in 1 Cor 11. And remember that Paul wasn’t even present for the first one!

Also, the this “remembrance” is not to be understood in the way we typically think of it today. It is not intended as a nostalgic recall of memory. This remembrance is spoken of using the same type of covenant language as the remembrance of the passover for the Jews.
It is to be observed in act (not memory) as a means to “make present again” (the correct meaning of re-present) so as to allow the faithful to participate with God in the divine mystery.

Thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of trying to get her to think logically. I don’t think showing her the scripture about St. Paul will do much because she obviously has her own “take” on interpretation; one that I had never heard before. I believe her interpretation to be illogical. She can “see” the correct interpretation of the Eucharist but has her own twist on it that absolutely floored me.

Annie

 

[sousley]

Thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of trying to get her to think logically. I don’t think showing her the scripture about St. Paul will do much because she obviously has her own “take” on interpretation; one that I had never heard before. I believe her interpretation to be illogical. She can “see” the correct interpretation of the Eucharist but has her own twist on it that absolutely floored me.

Annie

Ah, well, in that case, (as I have heard this before) I can only suggest to be ready to smile a lot and recite “Hail Marys” in your head, because its not the only one coming

This line of thought produces: binding and loosing died with the apostles, man-made Church, attacks against sacerdotal priesthood, etc.

And then they must hurry home to watch some guy cure ten patrons over the phone:shrug:

So Jesus said in John 6 that “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you” —ok so far.

The Apostles did just that at the Last Supper, and are now saved—still good.

The affected miracle can no longer take place since the Apostles are dead (your friend)—logical conclusion is everyone for the last 2000 years is condemned.—dang it.

The only way to avoid this is to change the meaning of Jesus’ words after the apostles died. Seems problematic.

 

[Annie39]

Ah, well, in that case, (as I have heard this before) I can only suggest to be ready to smile a lot and recite “Hail Marys” in your head, because its not the only one coming

This line of thought produces: binding and loosing died with the apostles, man-made Church, attacks against sacerdotal priesthood, etc.

And then they must hurry home to watch some guy cure ten patrons over the phone:shrug:

So Jesus said in John 6 that “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you” —ok so far.

The Apostles did just that at the Last Supper, and are now saved—still good.

The affected miracle can no longer take place since the Apostles are dead (your friend)—logical conclusion is everyone for the last 2000 years is condemned.—dang it.

The only way to avoid this is to change the meaning of Jesus’ words after the apostles died. Seems problematic.

That’s quite good. Thanks. But you lost me on “And then they must hurry home to watch some guy cure ten patrons over the phone” I don’t know what that means.

 

[Holy_Truths]

At Capharnaum, while Jesus was in the synagogue, He spoke about the bread of immortality which He promised to give, because the people then were in searched of Jesus after the miraculous multiplication of the loaves and fishes. They wanted very much to have that bread again, but Jesus promised to give them the bread of immortality instead when He said, “The bread that I will give is my flesh”. And when they refused to believe His words, He added: “Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” (John 6: 52-56). When the Last supper occurred, this promise was fulfilled, when Jesus changed the bread into His body, and the wine into His blood and gave it to His apostles (Matt 26:28). The apostles then understood what Christ said before, “For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” Christ said, “everlasting life,”, to mean that Christ wants salvation not only for those who partook of the body and blood of Christ during the ceremony of the Last supper ,but also for those who will follow Christ and want to have everlasting life. Thus Christ said, “Do this in memory of me”.

 

[Annie39]

At Capharnaum, while Jesus was in the synagogue, He spoke about the bread of immortality which He promised to give, because the people then were in searched of Jesus after the miraculous multiplication of the loaves and fishes. They wanted very much to have that bread again, but Jesus promised to give them the bread of immortality instead when He said, “The bread that I will give is my flesh”. And when they refused to believe His words, He added: “Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” (John 6: 52-56). When the Last supper occurred, this promise was fulfilled, when Jesus changed the bread into His body, and the wine into His blood and gave it to His apostles (Matt 26:28). The apostles then understood what Christ said before, “For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” Christ said, “everlasting life,”, to mean that Christ wants salvation not only for those who partook of the body and blood of Christ during the ceremony of the Last supper ,but also for those who will follow Christ and want to have everlasting life. Thus Christ said, “Do this in memory of me”.

“Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” (John 6: 52-56).

The above is very clear indeed, isn’t it? I wonder what mental gymnastics she uses to tell herself that this doesn’t apply to us. I hope I get the chance to ask her.

Thanks much.

Annie