A question about buddhism...

[rossum]

That has been a question of great interest to me, and I have a take on it I won’t post here. I wonder, if you might be so inclined, to message me with your thoughts on the difference. Two passages in the Bible that might pertain, imo, are:

John 16:12 “There is much that I wish to tell you, but you can not bear it yet”

Mark 4:33-34 33 With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. 34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.

I prefer an open discussion. By all means start a new thread here on the topic.

rossum

 

[rossum]

OK then, which aspect of God changed by Him “doing one thing on one day and doing a different thing on a different day?”

I do not know the details of the construction of God. There are references to arms, hands, nostrils and eyes, which seem to indicate anthropomorphism, but I suspect that most modern Christians interpret those references symbolically.

We agree that we can observe different effects at different times. If we accept cause and effect, and we accept that God is the cause then we can deduce that the cause has changed (or is a different cause, but I am assuming that you will only allow one God, not many). If the cause has changed and in both cases the cause is God then God has changed. QED.

rossum

 

[eddadonkey]

I do not know the details of the construction of God. There are references to arms, hands, nostrils and eyes, which seem to indicate anthropomorphism, but I suspect that most modern Christians interpret those references symbolically.

We agree that we can observe different effects at different times. If we accept cause and effect, and we accept that God is the cause then we can deduce that the cause has changed (or is a different cause, but I am assuming that you will only allow one God, not many). If the cause has changed and in both cases the cause is God then God has changed. QED.

rossum

Are you talking about the power of God? Nope. Remember that since the power of God is infinite, no matter how much you remove or add from God’s power God will not change.

Please try again.

Which aspect of God changes by Him “doing one thing on one day and doing a different thing on a different day?”

 

[Angels_Eyes]

Brenlae

I was a Buddhist for 5 years before becoming a Catholic.

I can recommend Paul Williams’ ‘The Unexpected Way’.

Williams is Professor of Buddhism at Bristol university in England. He was a Buddhist for 20 years and then became a Catholic. His book goes through Buddhist teachings and demonstrates how, even though at first they appear to make sense, they are untenable and illogical.

I am going to get myself a copy of this book.
I am always undecided where I belong, spiritually. I love Buddhism…but this might help me to ‘choose’ once and for all.

 

[rossum]

Are you talking about the power of God? Nope. Remember that since the power of God is infinite, no matter how much you remove or add from God’s power God will not change.

The quantity of God’s power does not change. The way that His power is directed does change. At one time it is directed to parting the Red Sea, at other times it is not so directed. The change is in the immediate use of the power.

I can use the strength of my arm to punch someone, or to help build a house. The strength is the same but the use of that strength has changed.

Which aspect of God changes by Him “doing one thing on one day and doing a different thing on a different day?”

How would the Bible read if God didn’t do one thing on one day, and a different thing on a different day?

On the first day God said, “Let there be light.” And on the second day God said, “Let there be light.” And on the third day God said, “Let there be light.” And on the fourth day …

That is the basis of my claim that God does different things on different days. The Bible tells us that God does different things on different days.

rossum

 

[Sufjon]

God’s blessing on your day.

Great question, how indeed can there be no “self” ? Whether put into several parts forming an “illusion” or whatever way the “self” is described as “non existent,” as a Catholic, I would not ponder this too long, as we, as believers in Christ, well know that whatever we call our “selves,” we live our life to worship and glorify God, to keep His commandments and* love others as our “selves.”’ * God loves all, whatever religion, yet I believe some mysteries will be answered in this life, and some in another. :heaven:

Semantics can be interesting, but best to remember that Christ Himself referred to our denying our “selves,” taking up our cross and following Him
There must, then, truly be a “self” in there somewhere! :angel1:
Peace to all here.
Kathryn Ann

Hi Kathryn Ann: There is a self, however, it is far greater than the instrument of sentience that we call ourselves. It is the core of all beings, and there is only one Self, expressed as many. Hidden behind the veil of sentient experience, the Self is the One Soul throughout all creation. He is the Father and the Son, and He is the saint and the thief.

The Self was never born, nor will It ever die.
Beyond cause and effect, the Self is eternal and immutable.
When the body dies, the Self does not die.
Hidden in the heart of every creature exists the Self, subtler than the subtlest, greater than the greatest.
They go beyond all sorrow who extinguish their self-will and behold the glory of the Self.
The Self cannot be known through study of the scriptures, nor through the intellect, nor through hearing discourses about it.
There is no one but the Self.
He is fire and the sun and the moon and the stars.
He is the air and the sea and the creator.
He is this boy, He is that girl, this man, that woman.
His face is everywhere.
He has no beginning; He has no end. He is the source from whom the worlds evolve.
That non-dual Self, though never stirring, is swifter than the mind. The senses cannot reach It, for It moves ever in front. Though standing still, It overtakes others who are running.
It moves and moves not; It is far and likewise near. It is inside all this and It is outside all this.
**The wise man beholds all beings in the Self and the Self in all beings; for that reason he does not hate anyone.
To the seer, all things have verily become the Self: what delusion, what sorrow, can there be for him who beholds that oneness?

It is He who pervades all.**

He who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord, who sees all living entities as His living parts and parcels, and who sees the Supreme Lord within everything never hates anything or any being.

He is not someone other than you.

This is why Jesus says to “love God and love your neighbor as yourself.” It is also why He said that “whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, you have also done to me.”

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Whadyamean]

Hi Kathryn Ann: There is a self, however, it is far greater than the instrument of sentience that we call ourselves. It is the core of all beings, and there is only one Self, expressed as many. Hidden behind the veil of sentient experience, the Self is the One Soul throughout all creation. He is the Father and the Son, and He is the saint and the thief.

The Self was never born, nor will It ever die.
Beyond cause and effect, the Self is eternal and immutable.
When the body dies, the Self does not die.
Hidden in the heart of every creature exists the Self, subtler than the subtlest, greater than the greatest.
They go beyond all sorrow who extinguish their self-will and behold the glory of the Self.
The Self cannot be known through study of the scriptures, nor through the intellect, nor through hearing discourses about it.
There is no one but the Self.
He is fire and the sun and the moon and the stars.
He is the air and the sea and the creator.
He is this boy, He is that girl, this man, that woman.
His face is everywhere.
He has no beginning; He has no end. He is the source from whom the worlds evolve.
That non-dual Self, though never stirring, is swifter than the mind. The senses cannot reach It, for It moves ever in front. Though standing still, It overtakes others who are running.
It moves and moves not; It is far and likewise near. It is inside all this and It is outside all this.
**The wise man beholds all beings in the Self and the Self in all beings; for that reason he does not hate anyone.
To the seer, all things have verily become the Self: what delusion, what sorrow, can there be for him who beholds that oneness?

It is He who pervades all.**

He who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord, who sees all living entities as His living parts and parcels, and who sees the Supreme Lord within everything never hates anything or any being.

He is not someone other than you.

This is why Jesus says to “love God and love your neighbor as yourself.” It is also why He said that “whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, you have also done to me.”

Your friend
Sufjon

Beautiful! Thank you8 for sharing that. And I agree exactly as to the reason Jesus gave the Great Commandment. It is also the reason for the Golden Rule. When your gut knows that the “other” is in Essence Self, how can harm be done? This is the veritable core of any functioning morality. Self is the ultimate epistemological answer without which all paradigms devolve into violence, even at the alleged birthplace of Jesus, among clerics! And this is why religion by itself is ultimately divisive. And without this Knowledge, the last refuge of both the religious and the atheist is the mind and its limitations.

 

[Sufjon]

Beautiful! Thank you8 for sharing that. And I agree exactly as to the reason Jesus gave the Great Commandment. It is also the reason for the Golden Rule. When your gut knows that the “other” is in Essence Self, how can harm be done? This is the veritable core of any functioning morality. Self is the ultimate epistemological answer without which all paradigms devolve into violence, even at the alleged birthplace of Jesus, among clerics! And this is why religion by itself is ultimately divisive. And without this Knowledge, the last refuge of both the religious and the atheist is the mind and its limitations.

Hi Whadyamean" You have a way of saying what it takes me endless words to say in just a few short sentences. I have to learn that art. And you’re right that religion by itself is divisive and the cause of untold suffering.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Whadyamean]

Hi Whadyamean" You have a way of saying what it takes me endless words to say in just a few short sentences. I have to learn that art. And you’re right that religion by itself is divisive and the cause of untold suffering.

Your friend,
Sufjon

Yes, and much good, as far as it goes. For whatever reason, I’m going to say the fundamental Universality of God, many religions have produced great, wise, and wonderful individuals. Some of them, though misunderstood-even if revered- in their own faiths, yet have arrived at the same conclusion as did Sri. It might be coded differently, but you might find it fascinating to read Love Poems from God, a book a friend lent me. It contains twelve poets and brief bios of six Catholic and six non-Catholic mystics. A truly wonderful read. As a Catholic I had no idea that these Saints even wrote poems, except for St. Francis of Assisi!

 

[Sufjon]

Yes, and much good, as far as it goes. For whatever reason, I’m going to say the fundamental Universality of God, many religions have produced great, wise, and wonderful individuals. Some of them, though misunderstood-even if revered- in their own faiths, yet have arrived at the same conclusion as did Sri. It might be coded differently, but you might find it fascinating to read Love Poems from God, a book a friend lent me. It contains twelve poets and brief bios of six Catholic and six non-Catholic mystics. A truly wonderful read. As a Catholic I had no idea that these Saints even wrote poems, except for St. Francis of Assisi!

Thanks for the Tip Whadyamean. I’ll check that out.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[netineti]

I was fascinated by this thread as I have a number of friends who profess to be Buddhist.

Being a Catholic, however, it was extremely interesting for me to come across the work of one Bernadette Roberts, a former Carmelite nun and a contemplative in the tradition of our Church. One of the banned folks on here argued vehemently that the Church cannot, in her view, accept the idea of “no self.” And yet, after having read two of her books,* and working on the third, I find that this woman has reached a conclusion nearly indistinguishable from that of one of the streams of Buddhism, namely that which includes Shankara and Ramana Maharshi amongst others. Fascinating!

The Experience of No-Self: A Contemplative Journey. State University of New York Press; ISBN 0-7914-1694-1 (revised edition March 1993); the first edition was published by Iroquois House (1982); ISBN 0-931980-07-0
The Path to No-Self: Life at the Center (1985). Shambhala Publications; ISBN 0-394-72999-4

 

[Sufjon]

I was fascinated by this thread as I have a number of friends who profess to be Buddhist.

Being a Catholic, however, it was extremely interesting for me to come across the work of one Bernadette Roberts, a former Carmelite nun and a contemplative in the tradition of our Church. One of the banned folks on here argued vehemently that the Church cannot, in her view, accept the idea of “no self.” And yet, after having read two of her books,* and working on the third, I find that this woman has reached a conclusion nearly indistinguishable from that of one of the streams of Buddhism, namely that which includes Shankara and Ramana Maharshi amongst others. Fascinating!

The Experience of No-Self: A Contemplative Journey. State University of New York Press; ISBN 0-7914-1694-1 (revised edition March 1993); the first edition was published by Iroquois House (1982); ISBN 0-931980-07-0
The Path to No-Self: Life at the Center (1985). Shambhala Publications; ISBN 0-394-72999-4

Thanks for the info Netineti: Of course I am very familiar with Shankara and Ramana Maharshi, but I knew nothing of Bernadette Roberts. I looked her up and I think I’ll be getting some of her books.

Thanks again,
Sufjon