A Question about Confession

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Do all Protestants who die, having committed mortal sins in their lives, go to hell because they never made a sacramental confession to a priest, or had their sins remitted by a priest?

What about Catholics who aren’t able to make a good confession to a priest before they die?
 
For Protestants no one know except for God. As for Catholics no one knows besides God.
 
We all believe and hope in the mercy of God, in those situations.
 
The lack of absolution makes salvation very, very unlikely (hence the doctrine of extra ecclesiam nulla salus); however, it does not make it rigidly impossible. As others have said, God alone knows the state of individual souls.
 
Are we saying here that the majority of the world’s population is condemned to hell because they are not Catholics?
 
eamonnroma said:
Are we saying here that the majority of the world’s population is condemned to hell because they are not Catholics?
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Jesus did say in Matthew 7:13-14 about narrow gate that leads to life & wide gate that leads to destruction (although I think this apply also in many situations and in many contexts as well :confused:).
 
SeekerM said:
Do all Protestants who die, having committed mortal sins in their lives, go to hell because they never made a sacramental confession to a priest, or had their sins remitted by a priest?

What about Catholics who aren’t able to make a good confession to a priest before they die?
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Baltimore Catechism Lesson 11What we call contrition is often only imperfect contrition — that is, sorrow for our sins because we fear their punishment in Hell or dread the loss of Heaven. If a Catholic — with all the instruction he has received about how to make an act of perfect contrition and all the practice he has had in making such acts — might find it difficult to make an act of perfect contrition after having committed a mortal sin, how much difficulty will not a Protestant have in making an act of perfect contrition, who does not know about this requirement and who has not been taught to make continued acts of perfect contrition all his life. It is to be feared either he would not know of this necessary means of regaining God’s friendship, or he would be unable to elicit the necessary act of perfect contrition, and thus the mortal sin would remain upon his soul and he would die an enemy of God.
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I gave you an example that can scarcely be found, namely, of a person not a Catholic, who really never doubted the truth of his religion, and who, moreover, never committed during his whole life a mortal sin. There are so few such persons that we can practically say for all those who are not visibly members of the Catholic Church, believing its doctrines, receiving its Sacraments, and being governed by its visible head, our Holy Father, the Pope, salvation is an extremely difficult matter.
Catechism of the Catholic Church**1033 **We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves:
“He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” 610
Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. 611

To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”​
 
Let’s look at the criteria for salvation outside visible unity with and membership in the Church provided by Fish Eaters, a very well-respected Catholic site:

The person must

be validly baptized by water and spirit, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (all who are baptized are subject to the Church even if they are not members because Baptism belongs to the Church), and

have not committed a mortal sin (or who, if they have committed a mortal sin, have made a perfect act of contrition), and

be animated by charity and a supernatural Faith in God’s existence, and

seek Him, and

firmly believe that their religion is the true religion such that there is no conflict or doubt about such in their ill-formed conscience, and

be not formally outside of the Church in spite of doubts about the possibility that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ (if one believes it is possible that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ, one is duty-bound to investigate)

As you can see, not many fulfill those conditions.
 
Protestants do confess regularly, both communally at each Sunday service, and individually in their own daily prayer life; they confess to Jesus as their one mediator and priest rather than to a human priest. It isn’t what the Catholic Church believes or teaches, but it is what Protestants believe and teach.

The CCC (838) says, in part (the whole portion talks about who is Catholic and the position of other religions and is worth a detailed read), “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity of communion under the successor of Peter.” and (846-847) “…all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body… He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism…Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:…”

There is also another section nearby that says something about the Catholic Church not condemning people to Hell…God does the judging, but I can’t find the particulars right now.

I would consider practicing baptized Protestants to be people who have made a sincere effort, with the best knowledge that they have, to seek God with a sincere heart and to do his will. I also know that they do confess their sins. I am not the one who is going to be judging them when the time comes, but if I were God, I would not condemn them to Hell. Clearly, however, I’m not God.
 
whatsmyname said:
Protestants do confess regularly, both communally at each Sunday service, and individually in their own daily prayer life; they confess to Jesus as their one mediator and priest rather than to a human priest. It isn’t what the Catholic Church believes or teaches, but it is what Protestants believe and teach.

The CCC (838) says, in part (the whole portion talks about who is Catholic and the position of other religions and is worth a detailed read), “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity of communion under the successor of Peter.” and (846-847) “…all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body… He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism…Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:…”

There is also another section nearby that says something about the Catholic Church not condemning people to Hell…God does the judging, but I can’t find the particulars right now.

I would consider practicing baptized Protestants to be people who have made a sincere effort, with the best knowledge that they have, to seek God with a sincere heart and to do his will. I also know that they do confess their sins. I am not the one who is going to be judging them when the time comes, but if I were God, I would not condemn them to Hell. Clearly, however, I’m not God.
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I’m sorry, but what you believe and what the Church teaches are not the same. Interspersing snippets of the Catechism doesn’t help.

The Church does not declare the damnation of individual souls, but She can and does declare the conditions necessary for salvation, which are what others and I have posted previously in this thread. In addition, we do not believe that public confessions and the like have the same, saving effect as the Sacrament of Confession.

That being said, I hope and pray that this doctrine will not be detrimental to your journey home. Please, continue considering! 🙂
 
JamesTheJust said:
I’m sorry, but what you believe and what the Church teaches are not the same. Interspersing snippets of the Catechism doesn’t help.

The Church does not declare the damnation of individual souls, but She can and does declare the conditions necessary for salvation, which are what others and I have posted previously in this thread. In addition, we do not believe that public confessions and the like have the same, saving effect as the Sacrament of Confession.

That being said, I hope and pray that this doctrine will not be detrimental to your journey home. Please, continue considering! 🙂
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I know that you do not believe what the Protestants believe. I said that in my post. But they believe it sincerely. And while the CCC does state the conditions necessary for salvation, it also leaves open to God’s judgment whether or not those who have not been exposed to the Catholic Church’s teachings will be saved. Protestants have not been exposed to the Catholic Church’s teachings.
 
whatsmyname said:
I know that you do not believe what the Protestants believe. I said that in my post. But they believe it sincerely. And while the CCC does state the conditions necessary for salvation, it also leaves open to God’s judgment whether or not those who have not been exposed to the Catholic Church’s teachings will be saved. Protestants have not been exposed to the Catholic Church’s teachings.
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This may help, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it can be seen that Christians are culpable who reject the authority of the Church or “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good …”: 1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” 59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
 
WMN, the Catechism must be understood in continuity with Tradition, which clearly teaches that simply not being exposed to Catholicism does not guarantee or even greatly increase the probability of salvation.
 
I’m getting a little confused here as a new Catholic. In the dozen or so answers from the apologists I’ve read and from the information I’ve read in the CCC, it seems Protestants can (not will) go to heaven. God will decide.

In some of the posts, I’m being told Catholic tradition and the CCC says they absolutely will go to Hell.

How do I know when to follow church tradition (and what is that tradition?) and how do I which parts of the CCC are correct and which aren’t?

I could ask the Deacon who leads my inquiry group, but he and his wife have already told me that all people, regardless of their religious beliefs, are saints and that the Catholic Church will change is stance on gay marriage as soon as all 50 states make it legal so I don’t think they are the best authority.
 
whatsmyname said:
I’m getting a little confused here as a new Catholic. In the dozen or so answers from the apologists I’ve read and from the information I’ve read in the CCC, it seems Protestants can (not will) go to heaven. God will decide.
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It is possible. For example, a Protestant who is validly baptized and then never commits any mortal sin is certainly saved, assuming he is unable to know that the Catholic Church is that which was established by Jesus Christ for him to belong to.
In some of the posts, I’m being told Catholic tradition and the CCC says they absolutely will go to Hell.
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Is that confirmed in your own reading of the CCC?
How do I know when to follow church tradition (and what is that tradition?) and how do I which parts of the CCC are correct and which aren’t?
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The entire CCC is correct.
 
whatsmyname said:
I’m getting a little confused here as a new Catholic. In the dozen or so answers from the apologists I’ve read and from the information I’ve read in the CCC, it seems Protestants can (not will) go to heaven. God will decide.

In some of the posts, I’m being told Catholic tradition and the CCC says they absolutely will go to Hell.

How do I know when to follow church tradition (and what is that tradition?) and how do I which parts of the CCC are correct and which aren’t?
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My apologies; perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought that you were asserting that all Protestants go to Heaven, which is irreconcilable with Catholic doctrine. Protestants can theoretically be saved, but it is still very, very unlikely in reality. Does that clear things up?
I could ask the Deacon who leads my inquiry group, but he and his wife have already told me that all people, regardless of their religious beliefs, are saints and that the Catholic Church will change is stance on gay marriage as soon as all 50 states make it legal so I don’t think they are the best authority.
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Yikes! That sounds like a really bad situation, one that could scandalize many. Could you possibly talk to the pastor of that deacon’s parish?
 
JamesTheJust said:
Let’s look at the criteria for salvation outside visible unity with and membership in the Church provided by Fish Eaters, a very well-respected Catholic site:

The person must

be validly baptized by water and spirit, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (all who are baptized are subject to the Church even if they are not members because Baptism belongs to the Church), and

have not committed a mortal sin (or who, if they have committed a mortal sin, have made a perfect act of contrition), and

be animated by charity and a supernatural Faith in God’s existence, and

seek Him, and

firmly believe that their religion is the true religion such that there is no conflict or doubt about such in their ill-formed conscience, and

be not formally outside of the Church in spite of doubts about the possibility that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ (if one believes it is possible that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ, one is duty-bound to investigate)

As you can see, not many fulfill those conditions.
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So let me see if I understand you (and some others here.)

If John F. Kennedy didn’t confess his latest infidelity before he was shot in the head that Friday afternoon in Dallas, it’s Catholic dogma that he went straight to hell?

And if Martin Luther King Jr. ever had an extra-marrital affair, it’s Catholic dogma that he would have gone straight to hell (because adultery is a mortal sin, and as a Protestant he wouldn’t have confessed this mortal sin to a priest before his death)?

And if Thomas Jefferson (being a married man) fathered a child with Sally Hemings (as almost all historians agree he did), that would put him (as a Protestant who never confessed his sins to a priest, and never formally recieved the sacrament of absolution) in hell?

Is that Catholic dogma, or am I misunderstanding some of the posters here?

Also, the Catholic soldier conscious of some mortal sin would be foolish to throw himself on a grenade to save his fellow sholdiers unless there was a priest nearby, because if he died without confessing his sin he’d go straight to hell, is that right?
 
SeekerM said:
So if John F. Kennedy didn’t confess his latest infidelity before he was shot in the head that Friday afternoon in Dallas, it’s Catholic dogma that he went straight to hell?

And if Martin Luther King Jr. ever had an extra-marrital affair, it’s Catholic dogma that he would have gone straight to hell (because adultery is a mortal sin, and as a Protestant he wouldn’t have confessed this mortal sin to a priest before his death)?

And if Thomas Jefferson (being a married man) fathered a child with Sally Hemings (as almost all historians agree he did), that would put him (as a Protestant who never confessed his sins to a priest, and never formally recieved the sacrament of absolution) in hell?

Is that Catholic dogma, or am I misunderstanding some of the posters here?
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They will be judged according to their merits, and yes - just like everyone else on earth - if they died in a state of mortal sin, then they went to Hell. But that is for God to judge; not us.

Being immortalized in the history books, or even just being remembered as good Americans, is not the same thing as going to Heaven. All are equal at the Judgement Day, and none of us will escape wrath merely because of money, titles, or reputation on earth.
 
But are auricular confession, and formal absolution at the hands of a priest absolutely required to keep a dying person from leaving this earth in a state of mortal sin?

I think that’s the real question here.

And what’s an act of perfect contrition?

Suppose you were unable to speak, and in a great deal of pain, and all you really wanted was to be out of it, but instead of communicating that desire to the doctors and nurses, you agreed to things that prolonged your suffering for months, simply because you didn’t want a loved one to go on a shooting spree, and kill himself after killing them.

Suppose you prolonged your own earthly suffering for months to stop a multiple murder/suicide from ocurring?

Would that count as an act of perfect contrition?

Could you be forgiven any mortal sins you had committed even if you were unable to verbally confess them to a priest?
 
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