A question about girls and puberty

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Hi - I have a daughter who is 11. She is constantly complaining and irritable. She is going through puberty. No . but she has some breast development. Her doctor says it could be in a year or two. My sisters has their first .'s between 11 and 15. My wife says she and her sister had theirs around 11-12.

I think this complaining/irritability trait of my daughters is behavioral and undesireable. My wife tells me to go easy on her as this trait is part of the maturing process.

My feelings are 1) irritability, according to Screwtape, is a great way to distract a person from Heaven, 2) it is an opportunity for penance, 3) you will never be happy in life if you never learn patience and tolerance.

I mention this to my daughter all the time, but she is getting irritated at me;) I do try to remove her from her source of irritability and threaten her or make her write lines (if her source of irritation is her sibling, both of them will be writing lines).

I was wondering how significant the irritability issue is with young women at that stage of their life, and shouldn’t they learn to control it to some degree?

I should also mention that my daughter is highly distractable

TIA

Hilary
 
I am a woman, and I raised two girls.

Yes, hormones definitely play a role in irritability at that age. Even though the girl is only 11 and may be a few years away from her period (or maybe she’s already started it and YOU just don’t realize it–one of my daughters got her period at 11), the hormones are already at work to change her body.

It’s TOUGH for her to be sweet when her hormones are a stew. If I were you, I would go real easy for the next few years. Try to handle her irritability with a light touch. Turning this into a spiritual issue is just going to make her feel worse. She honestly can’t help it and it’s not fair of you to demand that she be like she was when she was a little girl.

HOWEVER–there is a line, and I would suggest either you or your wife sitting down with her during a calm time (in her life and yours!) and defining the line. She cannot be allowed to commit sin or to practice disrespectful behavior. These should be non-negotiables.

Don’t do this “sitting down and discuss” thing during a big family fight! Not good timing!

E.g., perhaps you will decide it’s OK for her to mumble under her breath about the crummy weather or something else that truly is irritating, but it’s NOT OK to mumble about a person, including herself.

E.g., perhaps you will decide that it’s OK for her to burst into tears and run to her bedroom and fling herself onto the bed and cry hysterically for a half hour, but it’s NOT OK to call her family foul names and scream at them about how stupid they are.

E.g., it’s OK to question her Church and the teachings and demand to see apologetic proof, but it’s NOT OK to miss Mass or make a scene at Mass.

IMO, the line has to do with respect. You will respect what her body is putting her through and not demand her to be a little girl again, and in return she will respect that you are also human beings living in the same house with her, and she’ll respect other human beings who live in the same vicinity that she does and most of all, she’ll respect God–even if she doesn’t FEEL like showing respect.

One more thing–reward her for her efforts. When she does or says something sweet or nice, tell her that you are proud of her. For something bigger, take her out on a shopping trip, or surprise her with a gift certificate to the Mall. I know, you probably don’t see the point of rewarding a girl for just growing up like thousands of other girls in history. Well, think about this–if YOU don’t reward her, someone will, very likely a boy, very likely an older boy who has learned that when a girl doesn’t get a lot of positive stroking, he can step in and do the positive stroking thing (buying her a piece of jewelry, etc.) in return for what she might give him, if you know what I mean. So head him off at the pass–YOU be the one to give her the “positive stroking” at home–little notes, gifts, loving compliments, etc. **Daddy is especially important to a girl at this time of her life–try to make the switch from disciplinarian to advocate and CHAMPION! **

Good luck–we loved raising our daughters.
 
My parents were from an earlier generation.

We were not permitted to treat our parents, siblings and those around us in a disrespectful way, hormones or no hormones, sick or well, happy, fat or sad.

Learning to behave with proper manners and respect even when she feels bad will serve your daughter well in life. She will be the employee who gets up and comes to work when she has a hangnail or headache, and will have success because of it. She will be the volunteer who is there even during a rainstorm.

Help her learn that lesson now.
 
I started the irritabilty thing when I was around 12…My parents used to yell at me, punish me…but it only made me worse…Now that I’m grown, I feel bad about the whole thing…Young girls feel like they are women, and that they should be treated as such…but they’re not…they still need their dad’s, they just don’t want to admit it…treat her with love, don’t lecture, but do keep your “parental antennas” up b/c young girls will test their limits and can get into trouble with lasting consequences…
 
kage_ar said:
My parents were from an earlier generation.

We were not permitted to treat our parents, siblings and those around us in a disrespectful way, hormones or no hormones, sick or well, happy, fat or sad.

Learning to behave with proper manners and respect even when she feels bad will serve your daughter well in life. She will be the employee who gets up and comes to work when she has a hangnail or headache, and will have success because of it. She will be the volunteer who is there even during a rainstorm.

Help her learn that lesson now.
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I don’t agree with this. When you body won’t let you, your will can’t force you.

E.g., if someone is suffering from a clinical depression (not just the blues over rainy weather, but a genuine clinical depression with a measurable chemical inbalance), they simply can’t get out of bed and come to work. They just try to hang on and not kill themselves.

Same for women’s hormonal problems. E.g., when a woman is giving birth, she often (not always) is quite mean to her husband. It’s not her saying those things, it’s the body. And when the baby is delivered and everything is back to “normal” again in the woman’s body, she won’t say those things again.

PMS is a severe manifestation of a woman’s cycle gone awry. Women suffering from PMS can do some very frightening things, and PMS has actually been used in a court of law to lessen the severity of the sentence upon a woman. I know women who stay home from work when they are in the throes of a PMS time. I personally try to be careful about making decisions during that time, and I try to keep a low profile, as it’s during PMS that I am most likely to blow up at someone and say things that later on, I regret. It’s especially bad when it happens at work or church.

Young girls who are entering puberty are stirred up inside by very powerful forces. Yes, I agree that she needs to learn to not sin during that time. But she can’t stop the angry, sad, confused, feelings that seem to be bubbling inside her. Even the Bible says, “Be angry and do not sin.” Apparently God understands that human emotions are not evil, it’s what we DO with them.

Again, I’m NOT saying that girls should be allowed to get away with mayhem, murder, and all the rest just because they’re “hormonal.” But I think they should be treated differently than a five-year-old who’s having a tantrum or an older teenager who’s rebelling. It’s not the same. I think that a gentleness and understanding needs to enter into the parental approach towards pre-pubescent girls.
 
Is your DD’s sibling able to understand on some level that DD is starting to grow and transform from a child to a young lady? Finding ways to increase the level of respect and improve the relationship between your children may help your daughter to be more pleasant towards her sibling.

It may also help your family if DD and parents can agree on a way for DD to express to you and her sibling that she does not want to be pestered or engaged in discussion at a particular time. I remember from my own adolescence that my mom would essentially force me into discussions that got very heated simply because I wasn’t in the right frame of mind for the conversation at that time. So many tears and ugly words could have been saved had she known to give me just 30 minutes to myself before starting into these talks!

I also agree with the advice Cat gave.
 
Different people, different ideas.

Growing up with a severe physical disability - and having a parent and grandparent with same - taught me to tough it out the way they do. I have had employees who call in sick for the slightest little thing. I wonder - if I can come to work when my hip dislocates all day long, can’t you find a way to come in with the sniffles?
 
Having survived puberty with a son and a daughter…My DD was miserable for at least a year and a half. She was irritable, grouchy and grumpy. She was in jr. high, spending most of the school week at her dad’s (who lived in the school district where she attended - not a good living situation). I distinctly remember one Friday night, after driving for 3 hours in the car, in the dark to Yosemite. We had stopped in Merced to get a bite to eat and her brother and cousin had not yet returned to the car. She had just been miserable to everyone in the car. There was no pleasing her. I was just about done. I wanted to leave her in the parking lot!
But I knew what the problem/cause was so I told her that I thought she would feel a lot better when she finally started…which didn’t happen for about a year. She still has trouble with PMS. You can just tell when it’s a good time to just leave her alone. But she now realizes what’s going on! Thank God! I guess my point is that you all will survive!
PS I didn’t leave her at McDonald’s in Merced and she really is a lovely, loving adult (that is unless she has PMS!) 🙂
 
I’m not sure you and Cat are really saying anything different in this case.

Going through puberty, going through a normal monthly cycle, dealing with a serious illness, or experiencing a chronic condition are all going to cause mode swings. Couple that with inherent personality and who knows what the person will feel? A parent needs to be sympathetic to the feelings while at the same time helping the young person to cope with reality.

Feelings don’t have to dictate behavior towards other people. They are not excuses for rudeness or failure to respect authority. But feelings are what they are. (I remember just hating my seventh grade teacher; the funny thing is she seemed to really like me.) Sometimes people (especially those with explosive personality types) ought to do their best to behave in a way that minimizes the side effects of whatever condition they are experiencing. In other words, they need to manage eating, sleeping, exercising, spending time with other people, etc.

A young person going through puberty needs to learn this. And some need a very firm hand from parents to do so. But a wise parent knows his/her own child. We are supposed to train our children in the way he should go but not all children are supposed to go the same way. Parents can go a long way toward respecting their child by accepting their child’s personality type and teaching the child to do what THIS particular child needs to do in order to manage negative and/or out of control feelings. (So called ‘positive’ feelings are just as problematic if they are out of control.)

While a parent should not allow rudeness or rebellion, sometimes a young person needs a calm parent to act as “spotter” for feelings and behaviors that the young person is not yet ready to manage alone.
 
SMHW said:
I’m not sure you and Cat are really saying anything different in this case.

Going through puberty, going through a normal monthly cycle, dealing with a serious illness, or experiencing a chronic condition are all going to cause mode swings. Couple that with inherent personality and who knows what the person will feel? A parent needs to be sympathetic to the feelings while at the same time helping the young person to cope with reality.

Feelings don’t have to dictate behavior towards other people. They are not excuses for rudeness or failure to respect authority. But feelings are what they are. (I remember just hating my seventh grade teacher; the funny thing is she seemed to really like me.) Sometimes people (especially those with explosive personality types) ought to do their best to behave in a way that minimizes the side effects of whatever condition they are experiencing. In other words, they need to manage eating, sleeping, exercising, spending time with other people, etc.

.
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Exactly!
 
just because she’s not had her first period yet doesn’t mean hormones aren’t gearing up to, raging and making her irritable or tend towards it. My DD gt her period at 10 and was cranky and irritable starting 1.5 years prior, with the sassy talk, being short with people etc.

What I say is, a reason for behavior is not an excuse for it. When I know my DD is begin a little…hard to live with, and it’s due to her hormones/period or emotions stemming from all the changes, I cut her a BIT of slack and try not to let a small infraction or hint of a tone cause me to get rattled, I just asked her if she needs to rest, or to have some alone time or an Advil. She knows that it means I’m detecting a bit of sassy-ness and she needs to reel it in.

I’ve talked with her extensively about how these fluctuations are normal and how she can be aware of when she’s feeling cranky or sore etc and what she can do about it and that she can talk to me about it. I’ve given her coping options that all of us need being women.

I still expect that she have some level of self control:) and grow towards self mastery. I mean, she’s not the first woman in the world to have a period and hormones nor will she be the last. There are women walking around by the millions daily that feel like crud thanks to hormones and they can’t be witchy to everyone they come across.

I will not minimize at ALL the pain and discomfort that comes especially with being a pubescent girl, but I won’t excuse plain old bad behavior either.

I thin open communication, an understanding mom, and clear expectations of behavior are a good start. This is only the beginning of living with a hormonal developing woman.

That is my take on the matter;)
 
Hilary, I am very upset by your complaints about your daughter. Your irritability at your daughter’s onset of adolescence is distracting you from heaven, and is an opportunity for penance, and frankly, you will never be happy if you allow yourself to have these negative feelings toward your own child.
Now set to writing lines - or else!!!

I’m kidding… (but not really).

Your assignment is not to write lines, but to read the lines that Cat wrote - over and over. Her response is brilliant.

Of course we all need to control ourselves. Of course we all need to grow in patience and love and to feel gratitude and etc… but just as you feel entitled to have complaints about your life, your daughter does as well, and there are few creatures more wretched than a pubescent girl. It makes sense to have rules around behavior, but if she’s not allowed to be in a bad mood then her only options are to avoid you, or put on a false face. Either way - this is the worst possible time for you to reject your daughter emotionally. Also - don’t underestimate how much energy she has to put into seeming cheerful and calm when she’s at school and otherwise out in the world… again, her peer group is cruelest at this age. We all deserve to be able to let our guards down when we are at home.
 
*I agree with the posters who said that it’s not an excuse for talking back, rude behavior, but at the same time…if I can get moody and grouchy a few days prior to ‘that time,’ why would I think my dd should be any different? My son who is 16 has ‘his days’ too when his moods are off. Hormones play a huge part in how we feel, everyone. It isn’t ‘in our heads,’ or ‘an excuse’ not to work, or go to school. BUT…I think that there can be balance in how we handle our kids when they’re going through some of these changes.

Again, if I’m sometimes a grouch when I’m going through some changes during the month, I can’t expect my dd to not have any mood swings.

I like your way of dealing with it shanny…you ask your daughter if she needs to rest, or needs an advil or something–that is a great idea. My dd is 13 and hasn’t gotten hers yet…but she can be moody/mouthy, so it must be coming soon. :eek:😃

PMS is a very real thing, and it shouldn’t be treated as…‘get over it.’ I heard a doctor on the radio one day talking about it, and he said…imagine your hormones turn upside down once per month, and you are just not yourself for a few days…that is what a woman goes through, and it really can be taxing on her body. I was happy to hear that, because so many people think it’s just in a woman’s head, and it isn’t.

I think that exercising and a low sugar diet can help tremendously with those mood swings though. :)*
 
I don’t have a teenage daughter (yet), however, I remember my sister when she went through this, and I noticed some severe anger problems, holding grugdes for stuff that happened when she was about 5. (she was 11 or 12 at the time). I don’t know if that’s normal or not. What I’m wondering is if punishments and stuff would lead to or increase any anger problems. I’d go a little easier than normal, though I’d have some boundries. You can’t stay out too late, can’t be too mean to your mother, etc.
 
I agree. I don’t think I’d punish my dd if I sensed the mood swings during the same times of every month…BUT, at the same time, I would teach her that she has to find a way to deal with these changes. It’s a part of a woman’s life, and lashing out at anyone and everyone, is not how we handle it. But…I think it’s important to realize that some sassiness that rolls off the cuff, can be a product of hormone changes, etc. Doesn’t make it ‘ok,’ but if we sit with our daughters and offer compassion and understanding, and also education as to how to better cope, we should hopefully see a positive change in their behavior. I also tell dd to ask God to deal with any sufferings, and He will be our refuge. :o
 
hilarycotter said:
Hi - I have a daughter who is 11. She is constantly complaining and irritable. She is going through puberty. No . but she has some breast development. Her doctor says it could be in a year or two. My sisters has their first .'s between 11 and 15. My wife says she and her sister had theirs around 11-12.

I think this complaining/irritability trait of my daughters is behavioral and undesireable. My wife tells me to go easy on her as this trait is part of the maturing process.

My feelings are 1) irritability, according to Screwtape, is a great way to distract a person from Heaven, 2) it is an opportunity for penance, 3) you will never be happy in life if you never learn patience and tolerance.

I mention this to my daughter all the time, but she is getting irritated at me;) I do try to remove her from her source of irritability and threaten her or make her write lines (if her source of irritation is her sibling, both of them will be writing lines).

I was wondering how significant the irritability issue is with young women at that stage of their life, and shouldn’t they learn to control it to some degree?

I should also mention that my daughter is highly distractable

TIA

Hilary
Click to expand...
My friend, my friend. Tread softly here. Maybe this is a time for YOU to learn humility and patience and tolerance. Do you think?
 
PMS happens, and sounds like she’ll get her periods soon. It takes a couple of years to recognize the irritability for what it is, and it takes a lifetime to master the symptoms of PMS and reduce its effects on others around them. Reacting to it too strongly will make her resentful and angry, and allowing it to continue without any teaching moments will make it harder for her to manage PMS. It’s a natural part of life, so let her be and tell everybody else to do the same. It will get better with time 🙂 . But when she starts crossing the line, turn it into a teaching moment–taking her aside and let her know that PMS isn’t an excuse to be mean to people/call names/damage items/yelling/etc.

God knows we all have had times when we’ve been especially irritable 😃 Praise to Him for not making it one of the 10 Commandments…“Thou Shalt Not Be Irritable.” 😉 We women would be rushing to the priest every day of our PMS.

When my fiance’s sister goes through that exact same thing (she’s about the same age as all the other girls are when they start getting cranky once a month), I tried to help my fiance understand to let her be when she’s being cranky toward him. I’m also trying to help be a role model to her such as I can–like I let her know that I went through the exact same thing myself, and I’m trying to manage the crankiness and PMS symptoms–it took a ton of practice and time for me to get to where I am.

(And women, is it me, or does it seem like guys get PMS too? :D)
 
kage_ar said:
My parents were from an earlier generation.

We were not permitted to treat our parents, siblings and those around us in a disrespectful way, hormones or no hormones, sick or well, happy, fat or sad.

Learning to behave with proper manners and respect even when she feels bad will serve your daughter well in life. She will be the employee who gets up and comes to work when she has a hangnail or headache, and will have success because of it. She will be the volunteer who is there even during a rainstorm.

Help her learn that lesson now.
Click to expand...
This is the lesson I taught my daughter also. Hormones are only one of the irritations of life. I asked her to always try an behave properly even when she didn’t feel well, whether that be from hormones or a simple headache.

As Cat said, she could excuse herself politely from situations, she could come quietly tell me that today was not a good for extra stress, but she couldn’t make a scene or act in an ugly way without consequences.

It’s a good idea for your wife to help her track her moods and any physical symptoms she has–headaches, etc. Even if she hasn’t started her period, she may notice trends or patterns. That will help her anticipate days when she may be feeling more moody or irratble. Of course, at her age there may be no warning or predictability about it.

For my daughter and I, that is not an excuse. There is none at all for me, and very little for her. She has learned to recognize the earliest symptoms of moodiness and she copes with more quiet time, telling me about it up front so we can organize activities (ie, not having 5 or 6 of younger brothers friends over! lol). But I also don’t allow her potential moods to run the whole house. If we have something unavoidable or important to someone else to do, we do it and she is expected to act appropriately.

This training has paid off in many ways. She is more aware of her physical and emotional symptoms (the forerunner of NFP) which is a good thing for her. She is also a delightful, well-behaved young woman which is a good thing for the rest of us!
 
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