A question about Hell

[Bob_Crowley]

"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

A lake of fire? A great furnace? Can you think of anyone that honestly deserves that? Because I can’t. No one deserves to thrown into a lake of fire with a beast where they are tortured for the rest of eternity. Even the worst of people don’t deserve that: not murderers, not rapists, not serial killers, etc.
Let’s say there’s an atheist that spends his/her entire life helping others, and being the model citizen. They’re the closest you can get to the definition of perfect, we’ll say. How can God look upon a person like that, who has lived his life completely how God said is right (besides being an Atheist), and completely ignore everything they have done right in their life? How can you throw a good person into a lake of fire to be tortured for the rest of eternity? It is completely wrong.
And then, at the same time, you’ve got murderers and rapists and molesters and thieves chilling and living the good life up in Heaven because they believe in God. How messed up is that!? How can you not see how ridiculous it is?
This belief just makes me angry. And then in the same breath Christians say that their God is kind and compassionate and loves us all. Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think people have forgotten what it really means to love. If you love someone, like Christians claim God does, you wouldn’t send them to a place like that. It just doesn’t make sense. Either he loves everyone, or he doesn’t. And Christians, don’t respond with: “We send ourselves to Hell when we choose not to believe.” God CREATED Hell. Without God, Hell wouldn’t exist, nor would “the beast” or all the creepy creatures in it.
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?

It’s more than just belief. One’s behaviour is taken into account also. There may well be the occasional atheist in heaven, but he will only be there on account of Christ’s saving sacrifice, coupled with his own ethical and compassionate behaviour. We have a foundation in Australia called the Fred Hollows Foundation. He was an atheist, an eye specialist, who did a great deal to help people at risk of blindness in third world countries. I sometimes wonder where he is. But most atheists, in my experience, are far more selfish and self centred than he was.

I have claimed before that the night my father died, he appeared in my room. I believe he’s in hell, partly because he made no confession of repentance, and filled the conditions as outlined by the Church, but also because of his cruel behaviour to his own family in particular. Yet during our peculiar discussion on that odd night, at one stage I asked him what was important. His reply, from his new brief vantage point, was “How you treat other people”.

Christ Himself debunked the business of “faith alone”.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version)

21"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, ***but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ***22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

Our actions will also be taken into account, as well as our attitude to Christ, the Son of God, who died for us. If we’re ashamed of Him, He will be ashamed of us.

 

[mexico]

Sorry people for the dumb question I’m having trouble with my religion, trying to understand it and all I want to believe but somethings are just hard to understand.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Sorry people for the dumb question I’m having trouble with my religion, trying to understand it and all I want to believe but somethings are just hard to understand.

I think at some time we all struggle with the business of hell for eternity. It seems draconian at times, but we don’t see things as they really are.

For me it boils down again to the business of my father appearing the night he died. At one stage he cried out, “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” Yet in the same exchange he admitted “I was willing!” (to do the cruel things he did, for twenty years).

Nobody can read Christ’s words, and not get an impression of God “giving” Him disciples, without some sense of predestination being operative. I confess I don’t understand it, particularly when I consider what happens to those who were not given? But then I don’t know why one person lives to be a centenarian, and somebody else is struck down at the age of twenty.

What I do know is that God has appeared in the form of Christ, and we can either listen to Him and put His words into practice, or reject Him. In the final analysis, it’s our choice.

 

[Layman]

I thought Hell is the place, where beings who reject God, go. They can’t be with Him, they have to be somewhere, so to Hell they go. I think it came into existence with the fall of Lucifer and the rebel angels and then humans joined them there.

We have plenty of people these days who reject Christianity, who rejoice in sinful things, who do evil in private. How can such go to Heaven and be happy in the company of our good God?

Also, I think without the support, without the grace of God in your life, you become a hellion. There’s nothing to impede your evil desires. So a devil you become.

 

[Lamafacaja]

I think at some time we all struggle with the business of hell for eternity. It seems draconian at times, but we don’t see things as they really are.

For me it boils down again to the business of my father appearing the night he died. At one stage he cried out, “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” Yet in the same exchange he admitted "I was willing!" (to do the cruel things he did, for twenty years).

Nobody can read Christ’s words, and not get an impression of God “giving” Him disciples, without some sense of predestination being operative. I confess I don’t understand it, particularly when I consider what happens to those who were not given? But then I don’t know why one person lives to be a centenarian, and somebody else is struck down at the age of twenty.

What I do know is that God has appeared in the form of Christ, and we can either listen to Him and put His words into practice, or reject Him. In the final analysis, it’s our choice.

Eeek, really?!?!

Mexico,
Why? I can’t answer that really.

But what’s important to remember is that Our Lord Jesus has done everything He possibly can to see that we don’t end up there. Our Lord willed to be beaten, mocked, hung on a cross naked and bleeding. He willingly died in such a way, taking our punishment so that we wouldn’t go to hell. Our Lord has provided everything we need in order to spend eternity in heaven.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Eeek, really?!?!

Really.

 

[Lamafacaja]

Really.

:byzsoc:

*Mi Jésu, indúlge peccáta nóstra, consérva nos ab ígne inférni, duc ómnes ad cáeli glóriam, præcípue túa misericórdia egéntes.
*

*Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
*

 

[r4j]

Hi Mexico,
It takes time. Your understanding grows over time. Continue to study your faith, talk with other brothers and sisters, pray, receive the sacraments, etc. Your understanding will grow over time. Remember, it is a living faith. And no one has all the answers, if they did, they would be God. If you ask someone to explain the trinity to you, the first thing they should say is ‘no one can’ but that doesn’t mean we can’t delve into the mystery of it and get to know it as much as can and fall in love with the beauty of it.

 

[Norval]

Hi Mexico,
God created **all **things, seen and unseen. God is the All in All without him there is no thing. So God created Hell.
The second question in the old Baltimore Catechism was "What is our purpose? And the answer was and is, “To know him, love him and serve him in this life so we may be ever with him” (I think that is very close to the wording of the second edition).
God give us the choice with our free will we are able to choose to follow God or to follow our own selfish wishes. Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels chose to their minds a better way and we commonly refer to them as the fallen ones or the devils.

God Bless!!!

 

[Dsivanish]

Sorry people for the dumb question I’m having trouble with my religion, trying to understand it and all I want to believe but somethings are just hard to understand.

Cheer up!
With this one post, you have exemplified Humility and an earnest desire to seek Truth.
St Thomas himself needed to feel Our Saviors wounds to believe in His resurrection, and was the first of the Apostles to realize His true Divinity.
As your faith increaces, so will your understanding.

 

[Brannock]

I have a very rudimentary understanding of study in this, but while reading the responses, here is one aspect I thought of.

If we believe that the devil exists, understanding his nature of temptation and evil, and if we love God, we must admit that we do not wish to associate with the devil. If we are to be with God, and without the devil for eternity, there must be a place for that to occur, Heaven. If there is Heaven, which the devil has been cast out of so that it may remain perfect, there must be a place where the devil has gone. If the devil has been cast out of heaven for openly, ultimately, and eternally defying God, then if we do the same, we deserve the same fate. How would Heaven be Heaven if it were occupied with inhabitants that openly and eternally defied God? Thus we have Hell.

This is not complete in anyway at all, but just happened to be a path my mind ran down. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Schedman]

**Yes there is if God is loving he loves everyone equally even sinners. Why did he create Hell for the sole purpose to punish those who don’t believe in Him? **

I got into a discussion with my priest about this question. He maintains that God does not love us all equally but He loves all of us sufficiently for our own needs. I am still pondering his answer.

 

[Robert_Burns]

"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

A lake of fire? A great furnace? Can you think of anyone that honestly deserves that? Because I can’t. No one deserves to thrown into a lake of fire with a beast where they are tortured for the rest of eternity. Even the worst of people don’t deserve that: not murderers, not rapists, not serial killers, etc.
Let’s say there’s an atheist that spends his/her entire life helping others, and being the model citizen. They’re the closest you can get to the definition of perfect, we’ll say. How can God look upon a person like that, who has lived his life completely how God said is right (besides being an Atheist), and completely ignore everything they have done right in their life? How can you throw a good person into a lake of fire to be tortured for the rest of eternity? It is completely wrong.
And then, at the same time, you’ve got murderers and rapists and molesters and thieves chilling and living the good life up in Heaven because they believe in God. How messed up is that!? How can you not see how ridiculous it is?
This belief just makes me angry. And then in the same breath Christians say that their God is kind and compassionate and loves us all. Doesn’t sound like it to me. I think people have forgotten what it really means to love. If you love someone, like Christians claim God does, you wouldn’t send them to a place like that. It just doesn’t make sense. Either he loves everyone, or he doesn’t. And Christians, don’t respond with: “We send ourselves to Hell when we choose not to believe.” God CREATED Hell. Without God, Hell wouldn’t exist, nor would “the beast” or all the creepy creatures in it.
How can Christians believe in something so backwards?

Men are not judged according to the criteria of other Men. GOD alone may establish binding morality. Your entire philosophic argument hinges of the assumption that you have presented every legitimate scenario by which men are judged and you present an emotional appeal to what you percieve is Just and Proper - but unfortunately - GOD has a greater and more fair system of justice than do men.

You only know what you see and percieve sensoraly. But GOD’s Judgement is in Thought in Word and in Deed and all of the infinitessimal variances where Sin has been embraced rather than his Grace which he likewise supplies to the point of it being suffient to overcome all Sin. His justice , therefore , is meted out in Truth.

There is not one person who is in HELL that does not deserve to be there - everyone in Purgatory deserves to be there and everyone who is in the everlating Bliss of Heaven has satisfied Almighty GOD’s Criteria and Justice.

To say GOD is not just - is to border on blasphemy IMO

 

[Robert_Burns]

I got into a discussion with my priest about this question. He maintains that God does not love us all equally but He loves all of us sufficiently for our own needs. I am still pondering his answer.

2 Cor 12

12:6. For though I should have a mind to glory, I shall not be foolish: for I will say the truth. But I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth in me, or any thing he heareth from me.

12:7. And lest the greatness of the revelations should exalt me, there was given me a sting of my flesh, an angel of Satan, to buffet me.

12:8. For which thing, thrice I besought the Lord that it might depart from me.

12:9. And he said to me: My grace is sufficient for thee: for power is made perfect in infirmity. Gladly therefore will I glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Power is made perfect… The strength and power of God more perfectly shines forth in our weakness and infirmity; as the more weak we are of ourselves, the more illustrious is his grace in supporting us, and giving us the victory under all trials and conflicts.

 

[PJM]

=mexico;6873322]**Yes there is if God is loving he loves everyone equally even sinners. Why did he create Hell for the sole purpose to punish those who don’t believe in Him? **

Actually my friend in Christ; your understanding of why God Created Hell is incorrect and incomplete.

** 1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

** 1John.5 Verses 16 to 17**"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, **but there is sin which is not mortal. **

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.** Jesus said to them **again, “Peace be with you. **As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” **And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

**Phil.2: 8 **“And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. ** **And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Luke.14: 7 **Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” Matt.5: 19 “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. “ *Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” ***

What you seem to b missing my friend is why God made as as He did.

The Universe consist of BILLIONS of stars and Planets, yet ONLY ONE; earth can sustain life. WHY?

Of the HUMDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF LIVING THINGS ON EARTH ONLY ONE; humanity, has a mind, intellect and freewil [all Spiritual GIFTS from God]. WHY?

**Tim 2: “3-4 **This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

Isaiah 55: 6 "Seek the LORD while he may be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. “

**Isaiah 43: 7 **“every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made." 21: “the people whom I formed for myself that they might declare my praise.”

The precise reason for these Spiritual Gifts is to 1. Enable everyone to know God [optional personal choice]

1. To then love Him in return as no other living thing can do [optional Personal choice]
2. To OBEY His Commandments and the teachings if His ONE Church [optioanl personal choice]

It is We ourselves NOT GOD who choose hell or heaven [personal choice by virtue of our God given Spiritual Gifts]. GOD ONLY AFFIRMS our own choices!

Indeed NOT beleiving in Him, will send one to hell! It’s Divine Justice. God has a GREAT moral obligation to OFFER [not demanded] everyone sufficient grace to know Him. Some accept; MANY choose not too in this life and pay for it in the after-life. Our FREEWILL choice!

Christ Redeemed us while WE WERE STILL SINNERS!

Love and prayers,
a Brother in Christ,
Pat