A question about Islam

[eichenb2]

First, I concur with the following explanation given earlier in the thread:

“A Muslim is considered an unbeliever if he does not pray and he believes that the five required prayers are NOT required, according to the Maliki, Shafi’i, and Hanafi schools. If he does not pray these prayers out of laziness, he is not considered an unbeliever, according to the same schools.”

I would however hasten to add that the term “unbeliever” does not necessarily translate to the word “kaffir” since there is a significant difference in their meanings.

Second, I would draw the following analogy when it comes to viewing the Hereafter → Suppose someone were to offer you a billion dollars if you were able to complete the London marathon in under 3 hours.

Well, if it was me who was given this insane offer of a billion dollars, I would dedicate myself completely and spend the next few years of my life training everyday towards achieving this goal of finishing the London marathon in under 3 hours even though I have never run a marathon in my life.

And a wonderful aspect of this offer is that even if I do not manage to achieve this objective, I would would still be eligible to be rewarded accordingly for all the sincere and earnest effort that I have put in towards achieving the goal.

Now then, would laziness and “not having enough time” come into the picture at all for that someone who was given this offer?

I don’t think so and so it really boils down to the question of how much one WANTS the reward of a billion dollars and how much one really BELIEVES the offer to be true.

Apply this to the reward of the Hereafter and you should then view the matter of the 5 daily prayers the same way that you would view the importance of training everyday in order to achieve the goal of completing the London marathon in under 3 hours and thereby winning the billion dollar prize.

You are correct. kaafir is a word which has some nuance. It is used in the Qur’an to mean farmer, or someone who covers over a seed. The word itself is called an Ismu-l’faa’il. This is a word that identifies a the doer of a particular action. In this case, the thing done is burying. So, in Islamic law, someone who cover the truth is a KAAFIR or unbeliever. IIn Shari’ah (islamic law), it is more complicated and Kaafir can be a Murtad (one who leaves Islam) or a Jew or Christian.
As regards, the rest of your post, I have one concern. It always appeared to me that God seems to have created evil. What I mean is that, ultimately, in Islam, salvation is completely up to God. If we go to hell, God willed us to go to hell. So, in this sense, God created the evil that we do. God in Islam loves, but He is not love. In Catholicism, God IS LOVE (Agape). He created the world out of LOVE and gave us a free-will out of LOVE. This is not emotional sentiment. Love, as used in the Bible, is self-giving or seeking the good of the other.

 

[jakasaki]

And there were also people who accepted Islam on their deathbed, they didn’t even read the Quran let alone pray and give Zakat. They just recited the Shahada…

…

Hadi, I read this post this morning and it’s bugged me all day…

I want to understand what you wrote.

The people you are talking about I take it as “unbelievers” - correct?

If this is correct and these unbelievers are also “sinners” and all they have to do is say the shahada where… there’s no god but allah & mohamad is his messenger… etc…

And by saying this shahada on the "death bed" it makes this person a muslim and washes the “sins” away…

Am I correct up to this point?

If I am correct where does the koran state this because I’ve been reading it all day in bits & pieces trying to find why your post bugged me.

I found in chapter 4 #18 that it states differently what you posted.

**18 Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, “Now have I repented indeed;” nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous. **

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=4&translator=2

But there is no repentance for those people who persist in their evil deeds until the dying hour comes to anyone of them; then he says, “Now I repent.” Nor is repentance for them who die as unbelievers; for such people, We have prepared a painful torment

searchtruth.com/tafsir/tafsir.php?chapter=4

Edit to complete my thought:

So the above 4.18 is opposite of what you stated. 4.18 states allah had “prepared a painful torment”.

 

[hamba2han]

… As regards, the rest of your post, I have one concern. It always appeared to me that God seems to have created evil. What I mean is that, ultimately, in Islam, salvation is completely up to God. If we go to hell, God willed us to go to hell. So, in this sense, God created the evil that we do. God in Islam loves, but He is not love. In Catholicism, God IS LOVE (Agape). He created the world out of LOVE and gave us a free-will out of LOVE. This is not emotional sentiment. Love, as used in the Bible, is self-giving or seeking the good of the other.

The Lord gave us free choice and if one has to choose between TRUTH and LOVE, one should always choose the TRUTH because it comes from the Creator alone and no one else.

LOVE, on the other hand, is not exclusive to God alone because Satan too is capable of loving those who turn away from God and he certainly loves helping them go astray from the true path.

 

[eichenb2]

The Lord gave us free choice and if one has to choose between TRUTH and LOVE, one should always choose the TRUTH because it comes from the Creator alone and no one else.

LOVE, on the other hand, is not exclusive to God alone because Satan too is capable of loving those who turn away from God and he certainly loves helping them go astray from the true path.

Satan CAN NOT love! Love is seeking the good of others through self-sacrifice, from the Catholic perspective. Love is NOT a mere sentimental feeling. In fact, in most instances, love hurts, emotionally or physically; or both. True love is rooted in truth and truth is that God created the world in Love and heaven is were we share in that Absolute Divine Love in beholding the Beatific Vision.

" I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God almighty and the Lamb.
The city had no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gave it light, and its lamp was the Lamb. The nations will walk by its light, and to it the kings of the earth will bring their treasure. During the day its gates will never be shut, and there will be no night there. The treasure and wealth of the nations will be brought there, but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

• Apocalypse of St. John

 

[eichenb2]

The Lord gave us free choice and if one has to choose between TRUTH and LOVE, one should always choose the TRUTH because it comes from the Creator alone and no one else.

LOVE, on the other hand, is not exclusive to God alone because Satan too is capable of loving those who turn away from God and he certainly loves helping them go astray from the true path.

Also, Jesus is the Son of God; second person of the Holy Trinity. There is ONE Divine God in Three Divine Persons. Or…there is ONE What and Three Who s.

Muslims should not be offended. After all Muslims have a Two person God. Allah and the Qur’an.

 

[Hadi]

jakasaki, The verse you mentioned talks about *Muslims *who didn’t repent…not non Muslims.

 

[jakasaki]

jakasaki, The verse you mentioned talks about *Muslims *who didn’t repent…not non Muslims.

Please explain to me what you posted in the quote below and please cite sources and also where does the koran state that a non-believer once on the “deathbead” can recite the shahada and enter paradise regardless of their life sins. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Hadi

And there were also people who accepted Islam on their deathbed, they didn’t even read the Quran let alone pray and give Zakat. They just recited the Shahada…

 

[eichenb2]

jakasaki, The verse you mentioned talks about *Muslims *who didn’t repent…not non Muslims.

The bottom line is that God IS LOVE in Catholic. God loves, in Islam, but He is NOT love, because He can always hate you if He wants. Remember, love is self-giving that is conducive to the objective good of the other, NOT a mere sentimental feeling. As a former Muslim, escaping from Islam was like struggling to stay above the surface in the ocean (no boat or raft), then being thrown a life preserver. God loves us and does not, simply, want our blind obedience.

 

[Hadi]

Please explain to me what you posted in the quote below and please cite sources and also where does the koran state that a non-believer once on the “deathbead” can recite the shahada and enter paradise regardless of their life sins. Thanks!

I’m not a scholar so don’t take what I wrote and think that is what the Muslims scholars teach…I don’t want to be held accountable…

Pharoah, even though he recited the Shahadah before he died, he entered hell.
Alasromi, he entered paradise and he didn’t pray a single Salat.

you have to research on your own as to why one entered hell and the other entered paradise.

 

[jakasaki]

I’m not a scholar so don’t take what I wrote and think that is what the Muslims scholars teach…I don’t want to be held accountable…

Pharoah, even though he recited the Shahadah before he died, he entered hell.
Alasromi, he entered paradise and he didn’t pray a single Salat.

you have to research on your own as to why one entered hell and the other entered paradise.

Hadi… I googled “Alasromi” & got 5 results in Spanish breaking the word up into 2 words…

Alas & Romi… I then went to Yahoo search with 0 results

Can you please give me the sura for the "Pharoah, even though he recited the Shahadah before he died, he entered hell."

And also the sura for "Alasromi, he entered paradise and he didn’t pray a single Salat."

Thanks!

 

[Hadi]

Hadi… I googled “Alasromi” & got 5 results in Spanish breaking the word up into 2 words…

Alas & Romi… I then went to Yahoo search with 0 results

Can you please give me the sura for the "Pharoah, even though he recited the Shahadah before he died, he entered hell."

And also the sura for "Alasromi, he entered paradise and he didn’t pray a single Salat."

Thanks!

10:90 And We brought the children of Israel across the sea; and thereupon Pharaoh and his hosts pursued them with vehement insolence and tyranny, until [they were overwhelmed by the waters of the sea. And] when he was about to drown, [Pharaoh] exclaimed: "I have come to believe that there is no deity save Him in whom the children of Israel believe, and I am of those who surrender themselves unto Him!"

The other story is in Arabic,I don’t have the time to look for an English translation

 

[ZAKI]

Hi there Zaki - nice to see you back here.

What happened to your muslim faith status between last time you were here and now you are “researching” for something new?

I did read you had some family problems and are now back at home, but what made you question islam and research other religions?

I know it’s hard being 15 and your mind is going through so much. It’s not easy being a teenager. Believe me, we’ve all been there.

Also, besides asking for advice from “muslims” only here on CAF, which we don’t have many, you should also seek assistance from our ex-muslim posters.

And last question for now… I know you belong to a islamic forum. Have you posted your question on there for assistance?

If you did, what were some of the replies back to you regarding your situation?

Thanks much
Pam

i havent been on the islamic forum yet. after a while i found some aspects in islam a bit extreme such as being a kafir if you don’t pray and apostates being sentenced to death. it’s also because ive asked for help from Allah during my turmoil and nothing happened. i did so many sincere duas but nothing came out of it. maybe i was expecting too much? maybe duas take a while before they take effect? i dont know but i do know that i needed help and i wasn’t given any.

 

[Sam_777]

i dont know but i do know that i needed help and i wasn’t given any.

The help is within you ZAKI…

God had given you the answers before, but simply you didn’t believe Him, you relied on your ancestor words, you took the word of a sinful man who had many nasty acts and you didn’t believe the One pure sinless Person who never sinned…

My advice to you don’t put God into a test, you and I are sinners sons of sinners, don’t expect our requests to be immediately answered, God’s Word said in Matthew 17:20 “Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

So do you have a little faith as mustard seed? you said in your previous posts that you did unislamic things (i.e., sinned), so do you expect God to listen to your request immediately!!!

And don’t take that “mustard seed” as a symbolic example because it actually happened in Egypt in year 1225, more here.

 

[Mosacked]

i havent been on the islamic forum yet. after a while i found some aspects in islam a bit extreme such as being a kafir if you don’t pray and apostates being sentenced to death. it’s also because ive asked for help from Allah during my turmoil and nothing happened. i did so many sincere duas but nothing came out of it. maybe i was expecting too much? maybe duas take a while before they take effect? i dont know but i do know that i needed help and i wasn’t given any.

ZAKI, if islam’s allah could answer you, then muhammad wouldn’t have been poisoned to death and his sons all dying in their infancies.

The ONLY times that allah seemed to appear was whenever muhammad wanted justification for sex with little ayesha and zayed’s wife and getting excused for lying to the quaryish tribesmen.

You should ask yourself this. If you were never introduced to Islam, would you even bother about it? You wouldn’t right? You bothered, and nothing happened. NOW SEEK!

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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