A Question About Monasticism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard_White
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Richard_White

Guest
What is the true difference between a monastery, an abbey, a priory, and a friary?

I know that friars are members of a mendicant order, holding to extreme poverty and spreading the Gospel message through active community ministry (Franciscans and Dominicans).

All answers will be greatly appreciated! :blessyou:
 
Richard_White said:
What is the true difference between a monastery, an abbey, a priory, and a friary?

I know that friars are members of a mendicant order, holding to extreme poverty and spreading the Gospel message through active community ministry (Franciscans and Dominicans).

All answers will be greatly appreciated! :blessyou:
Click to expand...
The abbey is the motherhouse of a monastic community.

Monasteries can be daughter houses to abbeys. They are also independent houses in other communities, such as the Passionists who live in monasteries.

The abbey takes its name from the Abbot (Father) who governs the house. Monastery takes its name from monialis or monastic.

A priory can also be a daughter house to a monastic community. It is also a house where Dominican, Carmelite, Augustinian, and Servite friars live. It takes its name from the term Prior, who is the superior of the house.

Abbeys always have a papal enclosure. The other houses may or may not have one, depending on the religious community.

Friary is a house where Franciscan menn live. We’re the only ones who use the term friary. It comes from the French, Frere (Brother). Our houses are not known by the title of the superior, because the local superior has no real authority. His job is to take care of the needs of the friars in the house and to see to it that the house runs smoothly. The Major Superior is the real muscle man. But he may not live anywhere near the friary. He usually governs a region.

Friaries have no enclosures. People can come and go, men and women. The local community may decide that they want to restrict traffic to a certain part of the house, for the sake of privacy. But these are not real cloisters, because they are not papal enclosures.

Another difference is that abbeys, monasteries, and priories are allowed to own property as a community. It’s called corporate ownership. The individuals in the house do not own anything. If one leaves, he takes nothing. When he dies, there are no heirs, because he is not an owner. It’s not the type of corporation where the individuals are shareholders. The entire property is an estate. It can be very rich.

Friaries do not own property. The friary is built on a piece of land just big enough to meet its needs. The estate is nor corporately owned. It is owned by the Church, not by the friars.

There is another important detail about these houses. As long as they are occupied by religious, the local bishop has no jurisdiction over them. He’s not even allowed to enter them without the permission of the superior. However, because the local bishop is responsible for the sacraments, only he can give the house permission to reserve the Eucharist and he can take it away too. He cannot suppress the house, nor can he grant faculties to any to hear confessions in those houses. Only the superior can grant those faculties.

When an institution, such as a university, is attached t a friar, priory, monastery or abbey, it all falls under the jurisdiction of the superior, not the bishop. The institution is an extension of the house.

Rectories do not have these privileges and rights. They are secular houses.
 
Hah, I was wrong about the friary. I had always assumed any community of friars could be called a friary.

Thanks for the explanation, Brother. 🙂
 
Havard said:
Hah, I was wrong about the friary. I had always assumed any community of friars could be called a friary.

Thanks for the explanation, Brother. 🙂
Click to expand...
Don’t worry about it. You’re in good company. Half of the world has been calling Franciscan houses “monastery” for several hundred years. It’s really our fault. Over the last 200 of our 800 years, we sort of lost our identity as a brotherhood.

It’s like a drowning man. He reaches out to anything he can grab. Franciscans reached out and grabbed onto elements from monasticism, ergo monastery instead of friary. They also reached out and grabbed on to elements from the Clerks Regular such as the Jesuits, ergo excessive number of priests and the “invention” of the lay brother to replace the religious brother. That was insane. It meant that St. Francis would not be granted admission to his order. And grabbing on to the ministry of diocesan priests, ergo parishes all over the place and little or no ministries for the poor.

Thank God we have awakened from that insanity. :yup:
 
To throw another log on the fire, what’s the difference between Franciscans? Orders of Friars Minor, Capuchins, Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, etc. Do they differ a lot in spirituality? Are there any books on the subject?
 
JReducation said:
Don’t worry about it. You’re in good company. Half of the world has been calling Franciscan houses “monastery” for several hundred years. It’s really our fault. Over the last 200 of our 800 years, we sort of lost our identity as a brotherhood.

It’s like a drowning man. He reaches out to anything he can grab. Franciscans reached out and grabbed onto elements from monasticism, ergo monastery instead of friary. They also reached out and grabbed on to elements from the Clerks Regular such as the Jesuits, ergo excessive number of priests and the “invention” of the lay brother to replace the religious brother. That was insane. It meant that St. Francis would not be granted admission to his order. And grabbing on to the ministry of diocesan priests, ergo parishes all over the place and little or no ministries for the poor.

Thank God we have awakened from that insanity. :yup:
Click to expand...
Our children learn about St. Francis the monk in confirmation prep. :rolleyes:

I rarely lose my peace but had to walk away when I brought this up and was dismissed as nit-picking.

-Tim-
 
JReducation said:
Abbeys always have a papal enclosure. The other houses may or may not have one, depending on the religious community.
Click to expand...
Minor quibble but this only applies to women’s Benedictine abbeys now. Men’s Benedictine abbeys have simple enclosures. I can’t speak for Cistercians and other orders, although the local Cistercians (common observance) do not have a papal enclosure either. Some abbeys like the mother abbey (St-Wandrille, in Normandy) that founded the abbey I’m associated with, allow males on retreat within the enclosure; the guest house is within the enclosure, all meals are taken with the monks in the refectory and they are allowed access to most of the monastery gardens.

The abbey I’m associated with doesn’t systematically do that; male oblate are allowed to visit the enclosure when escorted by a monk, and it’s a rarely given privilege; I’ve been inside the enclosure only a handful of times in the 11 years I have been an oblate. Otherwise men on retreat can only visit the refectory to share some meals with the monks. A special privilege was granted on the 100th anniversary of the abbey to allow all oblates, male and female, to take a guided tour of the enclosure. The only time prior to that, when a female was allowed within the enclosure, was when the Lieutenant-Governor of Quebec shared the abbot’s table for lunch when visiting. The monks joked that since she was handicapped and in a wheelchair, she couldn’t do much damage :eek: (don’t let anybody ever tell you that monks don’t have a sense of humour, including black humour).

The local women Benedictines though, do have the papal enclosure. Even the sanctuary is separated from the nun’s choir by a grille, that is only opened so the nuns can receive the Eucharist. Visitors can chat with a nun, separated by a grille. Men cannot be allowed into the enclosure, except for some very specific purposes (i.e. repairmen), and the nuns cannot leave. The nuns have one or two “external” nuns that live outside the enclosure, who run errands for the community. The men’s community can designate any monk for that duty.
 
It’s worth noting that Dominican friars live in priories &/or houses, but use the term friary as a state of life, not for the building in which the community lives.
 
OraLabora said:
Minor quibble but this only applies to women’s Benedictine abbeys now. Men’s Benedictine abbeys have simple enclosures. I can’t speak for Cistercians and other orders, although the local Cistercians (common observance) do not have a papal enclosure either. Some abbeys like the mother abbey (St-Wandrille, in Normandy) that founded the abbey I’m associated with, allow males on retreat within the enclosure; the guest house is within the enclosure, all meals are taken with the monks in the refectory and they are allowed access to most of the monastery gardens.

The abbey I’m associated with doesn’t systematically do that; male oblate are allowed to visit the enclosure when escorted by a monk, and it’s a rarely given privilege; I’ve been inside the enclosure only a handful of times in the 11 years I have been an oblate. Otherwise men on retreat can only visit the refectory to share some meals with the monks. A special privilege was granted on the 100th anniversary of the abbey to allow all oblates, male and female, to take a guided tour of the enclosure. The only time prior to that, when a female was allowed within the enclosure, was when the Lieutenant-Governor of Quebec shared the abbot’s table for lunch when visiting. The monks joked that since she was handicapped and in a wheelchair, she couldn’t do much damage :eek: (don’t let anybody ever tell you that monks don’t have a sense of humour, including black humour).

The local women Benedictines though, do have the papal enclosure. Even the sanctuary is separated from the nun’s choir by a grille, that is only opened so the nuns can receive the Eucharist. Visitors can chat with a nun, separated by a grille. Men cannot be allowed into the enclosure, except for some very specific purposes (i.e. repairmen), and the nuns cannot leave. The nuns have one or two “external” nuns that live outside the enclosure, who run errands for the community. The men’s community can designate any monk for that duty.
Click to expand...
I went on vocations retreat at the Cistercian Monastery in Conyers, Georgia - OCSO - strict observance. They allowed the men on the vocations retreat into the enclosure for lunch in the refectory with the Brothers and took us on a tour. The tour did not include the area where the monks sleep but we saw the common rooms such as the parlor, the library (awesome), and the chapter room where the monks meet, as well as the shops, offices and work areas. We were allowed in choir with the Brothers and within the sanctuary during consecration. This was done only for men on vocations retreat.

The vocations director took us on the tour and told us how to behave at lunch when we visited the refectory:

After midday prayer you will line up in order of seniority. You are last. Follow the monks through the silent garden and into the refectory. Don’t talk. Take as much food as you want. You sit here (points), you sit here* (points), you sit here (points), and you sit here (points). Pray by yourself and eat as much as you want. You can have seconds, thirds, fourths… Bring your dishes to the monk by the sinks when you are done. And don’t talk. *

Both men and women on ordinary retreats had their own refectory and sat in the unused choir stalls further away from the sanctuary/tabernacle. The guest house is not within the enclosure.

It was a great honor to be allowed within. It is something I will never forget.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
I went on vocations retreat at the Cistercian Monastery in Conyers, Georgia - OCSO - strict observance. They allowed the men on the vocations retreat into the enclosure for lunch in the refectory with the Brothers and took us on a tour. The tour did not include the area where the monks sleep but we saw the common rooms such as the parlor, the library (awesome), and the chapter room where the monks meet, as well as the shops, offices and work areas. We were allowed in choir with the Brothers and within the sanctuary during consecration. This was done only for men on vocations retreat.

The vocations director took us on the tour and told us how to behave at lunch when we visited the refectory:

After midday prayer you will line up in order of seniority. You are last. Follow the monks through the silent garden and into the refectory. Don’t talk. Take as much food as you want. You sit here (points), you sit here (points), you sit here (points), and you sit here (points). Pray by yourself and eat as much as you want. You can have seconds, thirds, fourths… Bring your dishes to the monk by the sinks when you are done. And don’t talk.

Both men and women on ordinary retreats had their own refectory and sat in the unused choir stalls further away from the sanctuary/tabernacle. The guest house is not within the enclosure.

It was a great honor to be allowed within. It is something I will never forget.

-Tim-
Click to expand...
Cistercians, Trappists, Camaldolese and Carthusians have a much stricter enclosure than the Benedictine monks. The Carthusian enclosure is so strict that they are not allowed to allow the laity into the chapel when they celebrate community mass on Sundays. The laity may never see them pray. Though I believe that the superior can relax this for special situations. I remember the film, Into Silence. Those camera men went everywhere. Now that I think about it, they never filmed them praying.
 
I have a friend who is a Methodist Pastor. He went to seminary here in Atlanta and the Methodists from the seminary always did a work-week or two each year at the monastery.

My friend tells this story. Pastor G is 55 years old so it must be 25 years ago or more…

The monastery had a hermitage and there was a monk/priest who lived there, away from everyone. My friend heard about it while at the monastery on a work week and asked to meet the man, to experience him and ask what moves a man to become a hermit. He was truly interested in speaking with such a man and was fascinated at how someone could withdraw from the world like that. My friend convinced somebody to call the hermitage on an ancient phone - looked like it was from the 1940’s but still worked - and the hermit agreed to meet my friend.

My friend walked down the path to the gate where there was a sign hand painted on an old piece of plywood which read, “Ring bell. If no answer go away.” He rang the bell and the monk came to the gate and let him in.

They had a pleasant chat for a while until the conversation led my friend to offer the fact that he was in seminary. The monk asked him which seminary he attended and my friend replied that he was at the Chandler School of Theology at Emory University. The monk said in surprise, “That’s not Catholic” and my friend told the monk that he was not Catholic but Methodist. The monk got all excited, lost his peace, told my friend, “Your church doesn’t have apostolic succession” and such things and threw him out. 😃

It’s funny to hear my friend the Methodist Pastor tell the story. He shakes his head and says, “I understand the need for solitude but I don’t know if it is good for people to be alone that much.”

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
I have a friend who is a Methodist Pastor. He went to seminary here in Atlanta and the Methodists from the seminary always did a work-week or two each year at the monastery.

My friend tells this story. Pastor G is 55 years old so it must be 25 years ago or more…

The monastery had a hermitage and there was a monk/priest who lived there, away from everyone. My friend heard about it while at the monastery on a work week and asked to meet the man, to experience him and ask what moves a man to become a hermit. He was truly interested in speaking with such a man and was fascinated at how someone could withdraw from the world like that. My friend convinced somebody to call the hermitage on an ancient phone - looked like it was from the 1940’s but still worked - and the hermit agreed to meet my friend.

My friend walked down the path to the gate where there was a sign hand painted on an old piece of plywood which read, “Ring bell. If no answer go away.” He rang the bell and the monk came to the gate and let him in.

They had a pleasant chat for a while until the conversation led my friend to offer the fact that he was in seminary. The monk asked him which seminary he attended and my friend replied that he was at the Chandler School of Theology at Emory University. The monk said in surprise, “That’s not Catholic” and my friend told the monk that he was not Catholic but Methodist. The monk got all excited, lost his peace, told my friend, “Your church doesn’t have apostolic succession” and such things and threw him out. 😃

It’s funny to hear my friend the Methodist Pastor tell the story. He shakes his head and says, “I understand the need for solitude but I don’t know if it is good for people to be alone that much.”

-Tim-
Click to expand...
I don’t really know how to word this, but that must have been quite the experience for both of them! 😛
 
thequietsinger said:
I don’t really know how to word this, but that must have been quite the experience for both of them! 😛
Click to expand...
Yet my friend looks back at his time at the monastery as an amazing part of his spiritual journey.

He tells stories about the time he spent there and prays morning and evening prayer faithfully. I bought him a copy of Shorter Christian Prayer and he loves it - he even preached a sermon on prayer where he mentioned the “ancient practice of gathering seven times a day to chant the Psalms” to a mostly rural Methodist congregation.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
“Ring bell. If no answer go away.”
Click to expand...
Last month while my wife and I were Christmas shopping we passed a small hardware store that had a rack with a selection of “welcome” mats for the front door. One of them said “Go away!”

My wife thought she should buy it for me.

Some parts of the Rule of St. Benedict are more difficult than others for me. 😦

For some years my wife and I were going through a rough patch, and I lived in my office/study. I had a bed, an armchair, my desk, computer and and filing cabinets, a couple of bookcases, and my small prayer oratory where I say the LOTH. In those days I had a job where I worked mostly from home. It felt very “Carthusian” to me, just like their cells with bed, desk and oratory. I figured all I was missing was the small trap door where they someone could pass meals to me. 😛

I missed my wife but in that period I thought living as I did, sleeping, working, reading and praying in my “cell”, greatly helped me discern what was really necessary in life and what was superfluous (one of the things that turned out to be really necessary was my wife; fortunately she came to the same conclusion and we’ve since reconciled for several years now). Now I work only a couple of days from home and I took the bed out of the study.

But I still use the oratory:

i179.photobucket.com/albums/w312/OraLabora/photo-9.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top