A question about 'overpopulated' areas and birth

[Anim8]

I was arguing contraception with someone who insists it is necessary. I haven’t had too much trouble, but he mentioned something that got me thinking. What would be the moral thing to do in area’s of overpopulation?

(to my knowledge) It would be immoral to use NFP to keep from getting pregnant indefinitely (i.e. say ’ I only want three kids, because we have to do something about overpopulation’). But then what do you do?

What would happen if literally land became so overpopulated that you cannot in good conscience continue to have kids? I realize that this is a hypothetical situation and doesn’t exist, but I’m a little curious.

 

[teachccd]

Move.

 

[Smber2c]

What would be the moral thing to do in area’s of overpopulation?

What would happen if literally land became so overpopulated that you cannot in good conscience continue to have kids?

I expect the Holy Spirit would further enlighten us to God’s truth when this answer was needed. I suspect that NFP forever would then be acceptable for a truly overpopulated planet. The other answer may be telling people they must begin to abstain.
I acknowledge that both of these answers have their own moral qualms, but they seem the best 2 answers in terms of faithfulness to current teaching and acting in love.

The only 2 other options would be colonize other planets (but of course what if all accessible planets were full right? It doesn’t really answer the question, just postpones). The last solution would seem, keep having kids and admit that those who’s parents or providers are least able, will starve and die…not really an answer that I think has much chance of the Holy Spirit sending forth (though God’s never hesitated to put a human soul into babies he knew would be aborted).

 

[blessedtoo]

It’s an erroneous assertion. Give your friend the facts.

Germany running out of children:
dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1561093,00.html

European Countries can’t replace population:
observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,1312865,00.html

Italy’s Population Decline
guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,1858848,00.html

Spain faces massive population deline:
bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7239/891

Poland Population decline
religiousconsultation.org/News_Tracker/Poland_facing_population_decline_German_office_says.htm

 

[CCM08]

The world’s not overpopulated by a long shot. The white poulations of the US, Canada, and Europe have gone into signficant decline since the end of the baby boom. You need slightly higher than 2 births per woman to sustain a population and maybe show so meger growth. In Europe and among Europeans in North America you’re looking at birth rates less than 1.5 per woman. In Africa AIDS rates are so high that the population is leveled despite birth rates that should show growth. The only reason China has a population problem is because the vast majority of China is uninhabitable. In other parts of the world poverty is not the result of overpopulation. In Mexico and South America governmental corruption, socialist philosophy, and organized crime are responsible for those economic conditions. Smaller populations wouldn’t change any of that. The Muslim world is controlled by fanatical religon which drives the poverty and serves the rulers. That also would not change because of smaller populations.

 

[Kaninchen]

What would happen if literally land became so overpopulated that you cannot in good conscience continue to have kids? I realize that this is a hypothetical situation and doesn’t exist, but I’m a little curious.

It doesn’t but it very nearly could have, of course.

The large increase in the population of Western European countries in the 19th and early 20th centuries was more a product of public health measures and particularly improved infant mortality than anything else - with improved agricultural methods and industrial development at home together with the opening up of the US and colonies (as sources of food and places to dump excess populations) balancing the equation. The populations grew to a point where, to have an equivalent population density of some of them, the total population of the US would be in the region of 1.5-2 billion.

What would have happened if population growth had continued? ‘Overpopulation’ isn’t a matter of numbers, it’s a matter of resources. Some resources are capable of being increased - improved agricultural methods, for instance, but some are not - there is only so much land available in congested southern England, the Netherlands and Belgium for people to live, nevermind grow crops. Where would the water come from in southern Europe?

Of course, had European population growth continued, the US, out of the kindness of the hearts of the American people could have made a decision to take in any European surplus population until, at least, the point where the US population density was the same as that of Western Europe.

I wonder where the water and oil for a couple of billion Americans would have come from?

 

[stephanut]

seeing this thread reminds me of this discussion show on mtv, where they talk about aids in africa. the point made by the african youths is that there is no use telling people to abstain, and what makes things worse is that men who have aids are advised by their witch doctors/ friends to sleep with a certain number of virgins to get their aids cured. education about STDs is crucial but takes time. would it then be wrong to provide condoms to women at high risk?

and the muslim world is not driven be a fanatical religion. i live in a muslim region, and you’ll be surprised that it isn’t fanatical. the more you think that islam is fanatical, the more you will ostracize them, and the more they’ll end up being -really- fanatical.

 

[1ke]

I was arguing contraception with someone who insists it is necessary. I haven’t had too much trouble, but he mentioned something that got me thinking. What would be the moral thing to do in area’s of overpopulation?

(to my knowledge) It would be immoral to use NFP to keep from getting pregnant indefinitely (i.e. say ’ I only want three kids, because we have to do something about overpopulation’). But then what do you do?

What would happen if literally land became so overpopulated that you cannot in good conscience continue to have kids? I realize that this is a hypothetical situation and doesn’t exist, but I’m a little curious.

To the question “is contraception ever moral” there is only one answer: no.

Abstinence, either total or periodic using NFP, is the solution to any situation for which you have a serious reason for avoiding another pregnancy. Contraception is intrinsically disordered-- that means it is NEVER moral for any reason.

Whether or not “overpopulation” is a serious reason to avoid children through abstinence is different question-- to which I would answer “no”. Whether or not “overpopulation” even exists is separate question, to which I would again answer no.

The very real effects of drought, corrupt government, war, etc, are often large populations of poor, starving people in a specific area, for a specific duration. Therefore, it is the *circumstances *of the individual couple which are a concrete reason and may lead them to determine they have a serious reason to avoid children *at that time *for an indefinite period-- not some theoretical need to “do something” about “overpopulation” which is no a concrete, serious reason for that individual couple to avoid children.