A question about salvation

[VanDoodah]

I heard a non-denominational Christian say that he believes that Hell exists but no-one is there. His argument was that, after we die, we are given another chance to accept Jesus Christ, and that if we do, we go to Heaven. Because no-one is stupid enough to reject something that obvious, everyone os on Heaven.

This guy studed theology for two or three years, so he knew his stuff - is this a theologically viable belief? Or is it simply a gross liberalisation of Christianity?

 

[teachccd]

Catholic Christian theology teaches that there definitely is a hell. While the Church does not teach difinitively that anyone is in hell it can be implicit through the teachings on how one gets there. The Church teaches that anyone who dies in unrepentant mortal sin remains in that separation from God for all eternity. The condition of our soul at the moment of death indicates our eternal destiny based on our free will to accept or reject God.

God gives us this life to make the decision that is eternally binding. No where in Scripture or Sacred Tradition is it taught that we get another chance after death. This thought is most unreasonable since it would make this life nothing more than a holding cell whereby no one would have to maintain moral values or decisions that would build the Kingdom of God. You could just live for the flesh, sin to your heart’s content and then choose Christ after death. Not only is that unbiblical, it is nonsensical…teachccd

 

[Lancer]

I heard a non-denominational Christian say that he believes that Hell exists but no-one is there. His argument was that, after we die, we are given another chance to accept Jesus Christ, and that if we do, we go to Heaven. Because no-one is stupid enough to reject something that obvious, everyone os on Heaven.

This guy studed theology for two or three years, so he knew his stuff - is this a theologically viable belief? Or is it simply a gross liberalisation of Christianity?

Here is what the CCC says…which has an infallible authority in this teaching:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who** die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell**, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Die with a mortal sin…and death becomes… “point, game, set,…match!”… in tennis language.

So…I place my “money” on the Catholic Church’s teaching…which is telling us not only what Jesus said…but what he meant about Hell. Jesus was clear and spoke of hell / Hades (Heb) / Sheol (Gk)…4-5 times in the great Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7)…most people only focus on the Lord’s Prayer and the Beatitudes…READ WHAT JESUS SAID…HE IS CLEAR ABOUT HELL AND PEOPLE GOING THERE FOREVER…(plus Jesus is quite clear and very pointed in numerous other places in the scriptures about being dammed to hell).

Lastly…tell him to read the scariest book I have ever read (and the best by C.S. Lewis): C.S. Lewis’ ***The Great Divorce.

---

The Great Divorce is C.S. Lewis’s Divine Comedy: the narrator bears strong resemblance to Lewis (by way of Dante); his Virgil is the fantasy writer George MacDonald; and upon boarding a bus in a nondescript neighborhood, the narrator is taken to Heaven and Hell. The book’s primary message is presented with almost oblique tidiness–“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.**’” However, the narrator’s descriptions of sin and temptation will hit quite close to home for many readers. Lewis has a genius for describing the intricacies of vanity and self-deception, and this book is tremendously persistent in forcing its reader to consider the ultimate consequences of everyday pettiness. –Michael Joseph Gross–

Here is the strange and scary thing about us “humans and the bus”… in this book…the bus comes to pick people up at Purgatory…to take them to heaven…but many who see what they have to do…accept God’s will…get back on the bus and go back to Purgatory…which becomes hell to those who refuse to accept God’s will and his gifts. Sound familiar…like so many of us in so many ways in this life…with me first in that line!

This “theologian” seems to think that when we die we change and become holy…wrong! When we die…we die with all the pride and vanity, pettiness, meanness and selfishness that was in us when we took our last breath!

Pax Christi

 

[Dtmccameron]

And given that tale of the Saint, who’s recently deceased friend’s soul appeared to him and said that, to the effect of, on the day he died, several tens of thousands of people also died. A few went to Purgatory, he and another to Heaven, and the rest, Hell.

That ratio then sets up the idea that Hell is quite far from empty. In fact, it’s probobly overflowing. (Not really, but you know what I mean…)

 

[geometer]

I heard a non-denominational Christian say that he believes that Hell exists but no-one is there. His argument was that, after we die, we are given another chance to accept Jesus Christ, and that if we do, we go to Heaven. Because no-one is stupid enough to reject something that obvious, everyone os on Heaven.

This guy studed theology for two or three years, so he knew his stuff - is this a theologically viable belief? Or is it simply a gross liberalisation of Christianity?

You are using the word salvation to mean, going to heaven when you die. I don’t believe that being saved points to that in the scriptures. People who are saved in the bible have been healed, or saved from death.

 

[teachccd]

You are using the word salvation to mean, going to heaven when you die. I don’t believe that being saved points to that in the scriptures. People who are saved in the bible have been healed, or saved from death.

 

[Leela]

Clearly there are differences of opinion on such fundamental matters among Christians. How can we hope to settle such arguments where each side claims to know what God really says? The fact that there is such disagreement and no side seems to be in any better position than any other in making their claim to know what God thinks suggests to me that none of these people really have any clue. I think that best answer here is “I don’t know.”

 

[VociMike]

I heard a non-denominational Christian say that he believes that Hell exists but no-one is there. His argument was that, after we die, we are given another chance to accept Jesus Christ, and that if we do, we go to Heaven. Because no-one is stupid enough to reject something that obvious, everyone os on Heaven.

I guess that means that none of the angels actually rebelled against God. So much for that old wive’s tale.

 

[VociMike]

And given that tale of the Saint, who’s recently deceased friend’s soul appeared to him and said that, to the effect of, on the day he died, several tens of thousands of people also died. A few went to Purgatory, he and another to Heaven, and the rest, Hell.

That ratio then sets up the idea that Hell is quite far from empty. In fact, it’s probobly overflowing. (Not really, but you know what I mean…)

Such a ratio sets up the idea in my head that God made some fundamental mistake either in our creation or in his plan of salvation.

 

[ricmat]

I heard a non-denominational Christian say that he believes that Hell exists but no-one is there. His argument was that, after we die, we are given another chance to accept Jesus Christ, and that if we do, we go to Heaven. Because no-one is stupid enough to reject something that obvious, everyone os on Heaven.

This guy studed theology for two or three years, so he knew his stuff - is this a theologically viable belief? Or is it simply a gross liberalisation of Christianity?

Why do some people choose Hell?

Read “The Great Divorce” by CS Lewis. Is is short and fun to read.

Or perhaps like Satan, they would rather be King of Hell than a slave in heaven (that’s a paraphrase - I wish I could remember the actual quote…)

 

[Leela]

I guess that means that none of the angels actually rebelled against God. So much for that old wive’s tale.

???

Yeah, that would be absurd.

Does “that’s an old wive’s tale” pretty much equate to “that sounds like something a woman would say and should therefore be ignored”? I’m sure that’s not what you mean by it, but interesting how sexism has embedded itself in our language.

Anyway, lots of Christians do think that the angels never actually rebelled against God. How can we ever know if they are right or wrong?

 

[VociMike]

???

Yeah, that would be absurd.

Does “that’s an old wive’s tale” pretty much equate to “that sounds like something a woman would say and should therefore be ignored”? I’m sure that’s not what you mean by it, but interesting how sexism has embedded itself in our language.

Some people seem to have a hair-trigger about taking offense. Are you one of those? Anyway, don’t fret about it - with gay marriage on the way, men can be wives too.

Anyway, lots of Christians do think that the angels never actually rebelled against God. How can we ever know if they are right or wrong?

What Christians reject the book of Revelation?