A Question About Scripture

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Scripture is a record of other’s experience with God. It is a record of the wisdom and understanding they gained of God. It is not infallible, magical, or inerrant. It should be studied to understand the circumstance which caused the various writings to be recorded. Each of us has the capacity and “gift” of hearing and understanding the Word of God that comes to each of us. Each of us is “living scripture”.

The scriptures are a collection of VERY HUMAN writings…so human that most volumes in many homes is usually covered in dust.🙂
 
Publisher said:
Scripture is a record of other’s experience with God. It is a record of the wisdom and understanding they gained of God. It is not infallible, magical, or inerrant. It should be studied to understand the circumstance which caused the various writings to be recorded. Each of us has the capacity and “gift” of hearing and understanding the Word of God that comes to each of us. Each of us is “living scripture”.
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If scripture is not infallible or inerrant why study or understand it? That would be like saying read this textbook on physics but it doesnt have anything accurate or relevant about physics to teach us.
 
UniversalistGuy said:
What is Scripture for? What is its purpose?
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Hi.

“Scripture” means simply a passage from some writings or a book.

In the context of Holy Scripture in Jewish and Christian faiths, this takes on a supernatural meaning. Scripture here is the writings of events and stories of God, documented by men and women who were guided by the Holy Spirit to make an inerrant documentation of most (though not all) Christian and Jewish theology.

For both Jews and Christians, it was common, over time, to commit the verbal teachings of their prophets and teachers to papyrus or similar durable media. These first verbal teachings were, thus, *enscribed *to paper. Scripture.

But writing something down doesn’t necessarily turn it to Scripture. That recognition had to come from the teachers and other prophets that, through the Holy Spirit, continually taught and recognized these written guides, again teaching verbally to others.

Scripture is not, as some Protestant Christians believe, an end to itself. The ability to create mass printings didn’t arrive until the 14th Century. Most people were illiterate until then as well. So how could Christianity survive as a sola scriptura process when there were no books? Simple. Someone had to teach the Word from a handful of books verbally. That’s what the Church did then and still does to this day.

For the Catholic Church, as with the Jewish faith, Scripture was a convenient way to commit the verbal Traditions of God to a permanent, transportable form. But many teachings and practices of Christianity (and Judaism) were NOT committed to paper. For some Protestants and their sola scriptura viewpoint, that makes such teachings and practices invalid. But New Testament Scripture itself notes where Christ did many “signs and wonders” that were not documented. Does that make Christ’s acts invalid since they weren’t “written down?”

Another important point: Who defined what was valid Scripture for what is known as the “New Testament?” We know, historically, that several Catholic councils defined these around the 4th Century (primarily to thwart false scriptures around that time that purported to be from the time of Christ). These same books of Scripture in this Bible (a Catholic documentation) are found in Protestant Christ Bibles, save about 7 books (Martin Luther moved them to an appendix in his reorganized Bible, considering them inconsistent with his teachings, and printing presses at the time eventually removed them from Protestant Bibles altogether.)

So, for Catholics, we see Holy Scripture as the written component of Holy Tradition (of which we teach over two millenia of practices that are just as Christian as those written down but also supported by Scripture). Both Holy Tradition and Holy Scripture are studied and taught to the faithful by the successors to the Apostles and first bishops, the Magisterium, the teaching body of the Church.

So Scripture is a general, inclusive but not exclusive essay on the Word of God, over many millenia.

Hope that’s a start to your question!
 
ignatius777 said:
If scripture is not infallible or inerrant why study or understand it? That would be like saying read this textbook on physics but it doesnt have anything accurate or relevant about physics to teach us.
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We are speaking of spiritual matters here…not physics. Other’s experience with the Eternal is a great way to measure our own understanding and experiences. What other’s believe cannot be “measured in a test tube” or through mathamatical formulas…physics can and is a demonstrable science…religious experience is not…one has nothing to do with the other…nor is there a “set measurment” of experiencing the Eternal.
 
Publisher said:
We are speaking of spiritual matters here…not physics. Other’s experience with the Eternal is a great way to measure our own understanding and experiences. What other’s believe cannot be “measured in a test tube” or through mathamatical formulas…physics can and is a demonstrable science…religious experience is not…one has nothing to do with the other…nor is there a “set measurment” of experiencing the Eternal.
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You miss the point. If scripture doesnt teach us some truths then there is no need for it. A book with the experiences of others is a book of entertainment. You may use it as a way to live your life or make decisions but it doesnt necessarily teach you anything useful. Just because you can apply the principles of otherpeople to your own life doesnt mean they are good for you. Like a physics textbook that provides truths of physics scripture should provides us with some truths of fatih.
 
UniversalistGuy said:
What is Scripture for? What is its purpose?
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It is a written record of what God has revealed to His creation. It’s purpose is that we can know and love God.
n His goodness and wisdom God chose to reveal Himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of His will (see Eph. 1:9) by which through Christ, the Word made flesh, man might in the Holy Spirit have access to the Father and come to share in the divine nature (see Eph. 2:18; 2 Peter 1:4). Through this revelation, therefore, the invisible God (see Col. 1;15, 1 Tim. 1:17) out of the abundance of His love speaks to men as friends (see Ex. 33:11; John 15:14-15) and lives among them (see Bar. 3:38), so that He may invite and take them into fellowship with Himself. This plan of revelation is realized by deeds and words having in inner unity: the deeds wrought by God in the history of salvation manifest and confirm the teaching and realities signified by the words, while the words proclaim the deeds and clarify the mystery contained in them. By this revelation then, the deepest truth about God and the salvation of man shines out for our sake in Christ, who is both the mediator and the fullness of all revelation.
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Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For holy mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.(1) In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him (2) they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, (3) they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted.
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vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html
 
ignatius777 said:
You miss the point. If scripture doesnt teach us some truths then there is no need for it. A book with the experiences of others is a book of entertainment. You may use it as a way to live your life or make decisions but it doesnt necessarily teach you anything useful. Just because you can apply the principles of otherpeople to your own life doesnt mean they are good for you. Like a physics textbook that provides truths of physics scripture should provides us with some truths of fatih.
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I understand that is what you believe. I never said there were no “truths” contained in scripture…but all “truth” is understood…IMO…through experience with the Eternal. Scripture is a secondary guide…not a primary guide. I weigh scriptural “truths” through the experience I share with those who have gone before me and with those Friends with whom I worship and share “incarnation” with Him in.

You may disagree…I’m ok with that…Truth is something lived out in our daily lives…it is not found in a book.
 
It seems to me that if you took Scripture away from the Catholics or the Orthodox, the Catholic Church would remain intact. But if you took it away from the Protestants, they’d be lost. The fact that the Catholic and the Orthodox Church exist today shows that the Protestant way of seeing Scripture isn’t the same as the way Christians in the early church saw it. It just can’t be. So Protestants look at Scripture apart from any Church. How can Scripture have a meaningful purpose if it’s outside the Church? Surely it’s only inside the Church, either Catholic or Orthodox, that Scripture can have any meaningful purpose?
 
Publisher said:
I understand that is what you believe. I never said there were no “truths” contained in scripture…but all “truth” is understood…IMO…through experience with the Eternal. Scripture is a secondary guide…not a primary guide. I weigh scriptural “truths” through the experience I share with those who have gone before me and with those Friends with whom I worship and share “incarnation” with Him in.

You may disagree…I’m ok with that…Truth is something lived out in our daily lives…it is not found in a book.
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We can certainly agree to disagree
 
UniversalistGuy said:
It seems to me that if you took Scripture away from the Catholics or the Orthodox, the Catholic Church would remain intact. But if you took it away from the Protestants, they’d be lost. The fact that the Catholic and the Orthodox Church exist today shows that the Protestant way of seeing Scripture isn’t the same as the way Christians in the early church saw it. It just can’t be. So Protestants look at Scripture apart from any Church. How can Scripture have a meaningful purpose if it’s outside the Church? Surely it’s only inside the Church, either Catholic or Orthodox, that Scripture can have any meaningful purpose?
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Precisely. Much of Protestantism is divorced from history and from revealed religion as understood by the early Church.

The NT was compiled to be used in the liturgies of the Church, so there’d be one, consistent witness to the Apostles’ words, both written and oral. And the OT was a collection of the sayings/events/prophecies of the people of Israel. It was never intended to be a proof text, but a witness to what God has revealed to man that is a part of the whole of what the Church terms Sacred Tradition.
 
all of scripture is written for my salvation, and mine alone. this does not change the reality that all of scripture is written for your salvation, and yours alone.
 
Della said:
UniversalistGuy;7468113:
It seems to me that if you took Scripture away from the Catholics or the Orthodox, the Catholic Church would remain intact. But if you took it away from the Protestants, they’d be lost. The fact that the Catholic and the Orthodox Church exist today shows that the Protestant way of seeing Scripture isn’t the same as the way Christians in the early church saw it. It just can’t be. So Protestants look at Scripture apart from any Church. How can Scripture have a meaningful purpose if it’s outside the Church? Surely it’s only inside the Church, either Catholic or Orthodox, that Scripture can have any meaningful purpose?
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Precisely. Much of Protestantism is divorced from history and from revealed religion as understood by the early Church.

The NT was compiled to be used in the liturgies of the Church, so there’d be one, consistent witness to the Apostles’ words, both written and oral. And the OT was a collection of the sayings/events/prophecies of the people of Israel. It was never intended to be a proof text, but a witness to what God has revealed to man that is a part of the whole of what the Church terms Sacred Tradition.
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Thank you for answering helpfully. So, really, however anybody views the place of Scripture connects with how they think of what their church or the Church is for?
 
UniversalistGuy said:
Thank you for answering helpfully. So, really, however anybody views the place of Scripture connects with how they think of what their church or the Church is for?
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Yes. That sums it up nicely. The Church views itself as the voice of Christ to the world due to the commission Christ gave to the Apostles, which they passed on to their successors. The NT is merely a part of the message the Apostles preached and taught. They also founded faith communities everywhere they went that were all connected to each other in one faith and one baptism.

Those eccelsial bodies that divorced themselves from the Church tend to also divorce the Scripture from its early Church historical underpinnings precisely so they can see Scripture as they please not as it was originally intended to be employed. G. K. Chesterton talks about Protestantism claiming the Bible while tossing out anything else they didn’t like in quite a colorful way: third paragraph concerning Catholic traditions. As always, Chesterton sees it for what it is, stealing one part of a religion and touting it as the only thing about it that matters. It doesn’t make sense.
 
Della said:
Yes. That sums it up nicely. The Church views itself as the voice of Christ to the world due to the commission Christ gave to the Apostles, which they passed on to their successors. The NT is merely a part of the message the Apostles preached and taught. They also founded faith communities everywhere they went that were all connected to each other in one faith and one baptism.

Those eccelsial bodies that divorced themselves from the Church tend to also divorce the Scripture from its early Church historical underpinnings precisely so they can see Scripture as they please not as it was originally intended to be employed. G. K. Chesterton talks about Protestantism claiming the Bible while tossing out anything else they didn’t like in quite a colorful way: third paragraph concerning Catholic traditions. As always, Chesterton sees it for what it is, stealing one part of a religion and touting it as the only thing about it that matters. It doesn’t make sense.
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Thanks ever so much. You’ve been most helpful. Chesterton’s comments are perceptive and clever.
 
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