A Question about sinful thoughts

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Ben_Sinner

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I have a question on an issue that has been bothering me for quite some time.

Is it a sin to intentionally have a thought with sinful material in it but not get any pleasure from it or want to commit the sin that is in the thought?

for example: I intentionally have a thought about killing somebody but I have no desire or wish to kill that person or even get pleasure from the thought of killing that person

is this a sin?

I’m kind of worried, because I hear people say the thought becomes a sin when you consent to it, but I worry when I have consented. Because when a bad thought comes into my head it usually doesnt go away so I just kinda roll along with it and hope it passes or if it’s nagging me I’ll bring the thought back again…plz help
 
I also worry because everybody I’m around is immodestly dress, so when I have a thought about something I did with one of those people (even if it was a completely pious thing to do) I’m worried I’m still sinning cuz the person was dressed immodestly in the thought like they were in the event
 
Flip it around. We should love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.

If you spend time dwelling on wretched thoughts - whether you get “pleasure” out of it or whether you “desire” to put the thoughts into action, or not - you are not loving God like He commands.

You’re deliberately walking the line between good and evil. You’re playing a bad game. You’re filling your mind with bad thoughts. You’re wasting God’s time…He’s listening, no?

Fill your mind with good thoughts, with supernaturally good motives, with thoughts of service to others, with desire for ever greater self-sacrifice for others, out of love for God. A spirit of service and self-renunciation. Seek holiness. And quit walking the edge.
 
I understand, but would it be a sin to have thoughts about jesus being crucified, since that is a sinful thought because someone is committing murder by killing jesus? THIS is what I worry about…or if I have to picture one of my friends in my head who is always immodestly dressed (I’m not fantasizing them being dressed like that, that’s just the image I have of them), would that be a sin?..or if I have to give a mental image of what the concentration camps were like during WWII? THATS the kind of stuff I’m worried about …I’m not sure when the line is being crossed or not…and also I would like to say, if I had a chance to not have these bad thoughts at all, I wouldn’t, but since I can’t get rid of them, I just kinda allow them to pass through
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I understand, but would it be a sin to have thoughts about jesus being crucified, since that is a sinful thought because someone is committing murder by killing jesus? THIS is what I worry about…or if I have to picture one of my friends in my head who is always immodestly dressed (I’m not fantasizing them being dressed like that, that’s just the image I have of them), would that be a sin?..or if I have to give a mental image of what the concentration camps were like during WWII? THATS the kind of stuff I’m worried about …I’m not sure when the line is being crossed or not…and also I would like to say, if I had a chance to not have these bad thoughts at all, I wouldn’t, but since I can’t get rid of them, I just kinda allow them to pass through
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No. It’s not a sin to have thoughts about Jesus being crucified; we can think about it and pray for ever deeper gratitude for His gift of love on the Cross. God gave meaning and infinite value to the Cross. And, with His grace, so can we.

Give your imagination to God. It’s your decision what you put into your imagination. Convert images into acts of Thanksgiving, Reparation, Adoration. As fleeting images come into your imagination…convert them to prayers, short discussions with God. Take advantage of the nanosecond, and take a turn toward Him.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I understand, but would it be a sin to have thoughts about jesus being crucified, since that is a sinful thought because someone is committing murder by killing jesus? THIS is what I worry about…
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it’s definitely not a sin to think about the Crucifixion… the Saints tell us we need to meditate on the Crucifixion if we want to achieve holiness. I think the only way it could be a sin is if you somehow find pleasure in thinking of Jesus in pain, - but that is probably impossible for someone to truly feel if they are Christian and love Our Lord. If it ever happens, it would be a temptation that you should just reject and not focus on. But it’s not wrong to think about the Crucifixion, quite the opposite! What if you used this as an opportunity to reflect on what Christ did for us?
or if I have to picture one of my friends in my head who is always immodestly dressed (I’m not fantasizing them being dressed like that, that’s just the image I have of them), would that be a sin?..or if I have to give a mental image of what the concentration camps were like during WWII? THATS the kind of stuff I’m worried about …I’m not sure when the line is being crossed or not…and also I would like to say, if I had a chance to not have these bad thoughts at all, I wouldn’t, but since I can’t get rid of them, I just kinda allow them to pass through
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No that is not sinful. The only way the first case would be sinful is if you’re picturing your friend in your mind in order to fantasize about them in an impure way. If you’re simply picturing your friend and the way you remember they is being immodesty dressed, that is not your fault. It’s not a sin at all to imagine concentration camps, unless you support them or find pleasure in doing so.

Simply thinking of bad things that have happened is not a sin… it becomes a sin if you agree with them somehow
 
Ben_Sinner said:
I understand, but would it be a sin to have thoughts about jesus being crucified, since that is a sinful thought because someone is committing murder by killing jesus? THIS is what I worry about…or if I have to picture one of my friends in my head who is always immodestly dressed (I’m not fantasizing them being dressed like that, that’s just the image I have of them), would that be a sin?..or if I have to give a mental image of what the concentration camps were like during WWII? THATS the kind of stuff I’m worried about …I’m not sure when the line is being crossed or not…and also I would like to say, if I had a chance to not have these bad thoughts at all, I wouldn’t, but since I can’t get rid of them, I just kinda allow them to pass through
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It’s not sinful to think about murder, abortion, or concentration camps, and it’s certainly not sinful to meditate on the passion of our Lord. Assuming proper maturity, it’s quite necessary to think about those things in order to understand the misery of our human condition and pray for God’s mercy. I think you’re being very scrupulous.

Images of immodestly dressed people are only sinful if you dwell on them for the purpose of self-gratification. If you don’t purposely bring these thoughts about and they simply pop into your head, at best they are just a temptation.
 
The things you are thinking of are not sinful. It sounds like you are tending towards a scrupulous attitude to me.
 
OK, thank you for the answers. I have another question:

when I have a bad thought and I reject it intially but it keeps nagging me until I consent to it for only a couple of secs because I feel like that will be the fastest way to get rid of it and it will stop nagging me, because it seems like the more I fight it off the stronger it becomes… but don’t want it and wish it wouldn’t be there and try to reject it again, is that sinful?
 
Ben, talk to a priest. I am not sure what would be best.

I suspect an over focusing on keeping out bad thoughts isn’t the best approach.

Bring God into your thoughts more often, as often as you can. Talk to him as a contrite and confident son. “Give me some tips, here my Father…what do you think about this thought”.

Pray like that. If you’re Catholic, go to Confession frequently and with great sincerity, and tell the priest about your struggles with thoughts. I don’t know what else to say, except that prayer - chattering with God - is helpful.
 
Another question (sorry to be a bother)

We’re told to avoid things that might cause bad thoughts to come up (dirty pictures, violent movies, etc) that we don’t have to do…this too is causing me worry, because now I’m worried that every little thing I can avoid is a sin because there is a chance a bad intrusive thought will come into my head…for example I’m afraid to go bowling because I worry I’ll have an intrusive thought of me thinking ‘I am the ultimate bowler and people should bow to me’, or talking to my mother on the phone because I might have an intrusive dirty thought about her…I technically am not forced to do these things so I worry it’s a sin for putting myself in those situations. Is this a sin or am I just being too hypersensitive and legalistic?
 
Metaphorically speaking you are trying to walk in a mine field. I struggle too with these kind of thoughts and have learned to treat them as a barking dog. I understand your concern about avoiding those things that lead to sin but just because eating may lead to gluttony does not mean I should avoid eating. Remember for the thoughts to be sinful you have to willfully entertain them for the sake of pleasure or malice.
 
Ben,
After taking a quick look at other threads you have started, I am working from the assumption that you are fairly young and probably still in school.
I also see, as others have said, that you are tending toward scrupulocity.
Being young you have the opportunity to “nip this in the bud” by educating yourself and getting a better and more clear understanding of what constitutes sin. Not so much by asking is this or that a sin, but by understanding better what “sin” means.

At present you are working from a false assumption. That assumption is that sin is the violation of some “rule” or “code of conduct”. However this is not what “Sin” means.
Here is the definition of “sin”
Sin = Hamartano (Greek),
To be without a share in; to miss the mark; to err, be mistaken; to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honor; to do or go wrong; to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin

I highlighted the definition that I want you to focus on.
In order to “miss the mark” you must have a mark you are “aiming for”.
Think of archery or a shooting range. The Target is downrange and you are seeking to hit the target every time. This requires that you focus ON the target, not on what is NOT the target. It also requires that you work on your habits for shooting. You seek to do everything in the same way, making small adjustments as needed to improve your aim and accuracy.
The Target in this case is “The Narrow Gate” that we are to “Strive to enter”. The striving, like your shooting is something that requires you to focus, not on what is not the target, but on what it is.

Right now you are focused on what is NOT the target (wrong thoughts). You worry about if this or that detail is “sinful”. You cannot properly judge this because you have not properly understood and focused on what IS the target and what IS the best way to improve your aim.
Such things as prayer, reflection, spiritual reading, time before the blessed sacrament, frequent communion and confession, these are all things that help you stay focused and improve your aim. As you concentrate on these, you will find the troublesome thoughts and tendancies to fade to the background and be gone. Overtaken by new thoughts and habits of gratitude, praise and Love.

One last thought. I think that often times we, as catholics, do not properly appreciate and utilize confession. As children we are taught the “format” of going in, listing off our sins, and receiving absolution. I’m afraid that many adults don’t get past this. The truth is that the confessional is not just a place to “upchuck” a list of sins, but a place where we can receive advice and council from our confessor.
Take advantage of this and be guided by his wisdom born of many years and hearing many confessions.

Hope some of this helps.

Peace
James
 
God, your Father, wants you to be serene and not full of worries. Do the advice you’ve been given here - many many fine suggesters from posters.

Do not struggle alone - struggle with God, for the love of God.

“Father, I don’t want to do or say or think anything that does not give you Glory, or to do anything that displeases you. I adore you. I ask the Holy Spirit to give me some time without these thoughts to get to know you better - to bring you into my day, my work, my driving. My greatest desire is total union with you, and these thoughts are keeping me from that sincere desire. Grant me undistracted time with you.”

Do not struggle alone - God is on the sidelines, leaning forward, waiting for your call to come into the game of your life.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Another question (sorry to be a bother)

We’re told to avoid things that might cause bad thoughts to come up (dirty pictures, violent movies, etc) that we don’t have to do…this too is causing me worry, because now I’m worried that every little thing I can avoid is a sin because there is a chance a bad intrusive thought will come into my head…for example I’m afraid to go bowling because I worry I’ll have an intrusive thought of me thinking ‘I am the ultimate bowler and people should bow to me’, or talking to my mother on the phone because I might have an intrusive dirty thought about her…I technically am not forced to do these things so I worry it’s a sin for putting myself in those situations. Is this a sin or am I just being too hypersensitive and legalistic?
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I appreciate all your questions. I, too, have had scrupulous thoughts just like you are having. One can even become paralyzed with fear of doing anything or going anywhere - including church! Your above question sounds like a temptation and does not sound like a sin. Temptations are always going to happen to us even if we lock ourselves in a closet! My advice is that whenever an immodest or other sinful thought pops into your head, immediately pray to Jesus to help you overcome the temptation. Dismiss the thought and go about your business. If the thought returns, pray again - even give praise to our Lord during the trial. Keep praying and giving praise to Jesus every time the thought re-enters your mind. God WILL help you. He doesn’t allow us to be tempted beyond our strength. Lastly, remember that God wants you to have peace. He loves you and understands everything you are undergoing. To summarize, here is my recommendation on what to do with tempting thoughts:
  1. Pray to Jesus to help you overcome the temptation
  2. Trust that Jesus will hear you prayer
  3. Dismiss the thought and go about you business
  4. If the thought or similar thought returns, pray again for help
  5. Keep doing this until the thought goes away
  6. Always give thanks to God whenever he helps you overcome a temptation
If you should dwell on the thought for some time and derive some pleasure from the thought, you may have sinned. If you sin, ask Jesus for forgiveness. If it is a grave sin, go to confession as soon as possible. We all fall from time to time and God is always ready to forgive us. He is the most loving and forgiving father.

God bless you. I will pray for you.

houston1
 
Ok, I can’t get to a priest until next week, so I’m still worried and confused about this…I don’t get why it’s a sin to dwell on a thought of me murdering somebody, I have no desire to go through with the action, don’t get pleasure from the thought, or would ever want to if I had the chance. It’s just a thought that’s in my head that I attach no emotion to, I’m just picturing what it would might be like if I was murdering somebody, kinda like having a thought of picturing myself on how I would look in 30 years. thats’ it. I’m not fantasizing about it or anything and I’m not planning it at all…I’m confused…for instance, tonight I was in a building and I saw an exit door that said “DO NOT USE, ALARM WILL GO OFF”, I just started picturing myself what it would be like if I did use that door, I had no intent of putting it to action and I took no pleasure from the thought, it was just a thought that occupied my head
 
and I’d also like to point out that I just don’t sit on the couch and just say “come on in thoughts!”…when a bad thought pops in my mind I just kinda let it be, it’s kind of like the when the practice of “when the thought of an apple comes into ur mind and then you try to spend the next 10 seconds not trying to think of the apple…what happends?..you think of the apple any more”, that’s another point I’m trying to get across. I just stay indifferent to the bad thoughts
 
Ben_Sinner said:
and I’d also like to point out that I just don’t sit on the couch and just say “come on in thoughts!”…when a bad thought pops in my mind I just kinda let it be, it’s kind of like the when the practice of “when the thought of an apple comes into ur mind **and then you try to spend the next 10 seconds not trying to think of the apple…what happends?..you think of the apple any (even?) more”, **that’s another point I’m trying to get across. I just stay indifferent to the bad thoughts
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I think that the bolded section is a core issue. The more you “try not to think about it” the more focused you become on it. This is what I was speaking to in my earlier post about what is your target.
It’s like this. You have a thought pop into your head. It is not a good thought and you want it to go away. So you concentrate on, “don’t think this thought”, “don’t think this thought”, “don’t think this thought”!! But all the time you are doing this, you are concentrating on what? - - “This thought”, that you don’t want to think…

As a result you become frustrated and worried that you are sinning by just giving in to the thought and letting it pass through - examining it though, as you say, without any desire or pleasure.

Let’s see if we can’t place this into something more “physical”
You are walking down the street and you come upon an “Adult Book Store” The window is filled with provocative items, nothing outright pornographic, but all highly suggestive…
Would you consider it a sin to stop and gaze at the various items, even if you weren’t “aroused” by them?
What would you consider the best course of action upon first realizing what this store is and what you were looking at?

Peace
James
 
well then how come it would be a sin to think about me murdering someone but not a sin to think about a jew being murdered in a gas chamber at a concentration camp like i stated earlier? that’s why I’m confused. Once I start thinking it’s a sin to think about sin I start worrying that I committed a sin just by thinking of somebody at the grocery line i saw at the grocery line saying curse words
 
Gas chamber example: If the intention or the follow-on thought a person has when they think about such historical events is one of sorrow, or is a desire to repair the relationship with God that those acts created, or is to ask God that He somehow - only He could do this - can or did make good come from bad…then those thoughts of the Gas Chamber are not sins.

Penitential, Adoration, Supplication, Thanksgiving, in other words.

If when you have your wretched thoughts - you immediately thank God that he sent Jesus to suffer in your place for having such repeated wretched thoughts - then that’s less grave of a sin. Or if you beg him for more temperance and order in your thoughts, that too would be a good thing.
 
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