A question about sins and confessions

[jcrichton]

Well, I think that I am just as weak and fallible as everyone else, maybe even more so. But it is totally impossible for me to commit an act of “rape”, no matter how much I would be tempted.

Speaking of much less important events, many times it happened that the cashier gave me back more money than it was due. For a split of a second it flashed through my mind that I could keep it (it would not have come out of her pocket), but felt the irresistible “nudge” to speak up and give the money back. And I am not a “saint”, not by a long shot. But when I feel that something I should not do, then I don’t do it. Even if I could get away with it.

Hi!
…yet, this is exactly how most people feel–giving into temptation begins in that rationale which you’ve cited: “no matter how much…,” “split second…”

Yet, as you’ve state you are far from being a “saint” that means that you do indulge certain things (the difference being that your “morality” may determine that its ok to do/not do those things).

The propensity to sin/err is there, in all of us. Some of us fail terribly, even from amongst the Believers.

A world without sin is only known to futuristic sci-fi (razed/scorched planet earth).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[eddie_too]

sins are deliberate human acts against God and against His commandments.

God commands us to not have evil thoughts. if someone harbors and delights in evil thoughts, he or she is sinning.

God commands us not to steal. if someone takes what rightfully belongs to another human being, he or she is sinning.

God commands us not to lie. if someone deliberately misrepresents the truth, he or she is sinning.

those are a few examples for the OP.

 

[eddie_too]

people sin because they are weak and susceptible to temptation.

if the OP is perfect and never changes his personal moral code so as to remain in his perfection, of course he or she can not understand that.

when we can make up our own moral code, it is quite easy to never offend it because we can just alter it or we can make it so rigorous and limited as to make it very easy to follow or we can rationalize how this particular actions is excused because of the circumstances surrounding our decision. for example, if only murder and rape are violations of a person’s self-created moral code, it should be relatively easy to live up to it.

God’s laws are not subject to change and include things like getting angry at another person and passing by someone who is in need without helping them and entertaining lustful thoughts. we only now of two human beings who perfectly live up to God’s moral code. that would be our Lord Jesus and His Holy Mother Mary.

 

[jcrichton]

Thanks. But I have another question. It is possible that someone forgets or withholds something during the confession. Or does not really “repent”, just says so. The priest is obviously unaware of this, and yet he utters those words: “ego te absolvo…”. “I absolve you”… not “God absolves you”. Are the words “ego te absolvo” to be taken seriously? Does an absolution really take place?

Hi!
Now you are talking personal determination to hide from God… it can’t be done!

Yes, while anyone can fake Confession it is not to the Priest that they are being disingenuine; they are attempting to deceive God; yet, God cannot be deceived:

7 Be not deceived, God is not mocked. 8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:7-8)

5 But if any of you want wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men abundantly, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, which is moved and carried about by the wind. 7 Therefore let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways.

26 And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. (St. James 1:5-8, 26)

When a person is not fully repentant but simply goes through the motion, the Priest may issue forth the Blessings of the Sacrament of Confession, but the guilty party receives none–we cannot mock/trick God!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Solmyr]

Yet, as you’ve state you are far from being a “saint” that means that you do indulge certain things (the difference being that your “morality” may determine that its ok to do/not do those things).

Of course I indulge in certain things, but in those which I consider wrong. I also gave examples which I could never commit, even if I thought that I could get away with it.

if the OP is perfect and never changes his personal moral code so as to remain in his perfection, of course he or she can not understand that.

There was not one word about “perfection”. But I do not change my moral code, because I find it as good as possible. Of course I would change it, if there would be some rational argument to prove that this code is deficient or internally inconsistent.

when we can make up our own moral code, it is quite easy to never offend it because we can just alter it or we can make it so rigorous and limited as to make it very easy to follow or we can rationalize how this particular actions is excused because of the circumstances surrounding our decision. for example, if only murder and rape are violations of a person’s self-created moral code, it should be relatively easy to live up to it.

Oh, but it is more complicated than that. But, of course every bit of it is rational, so it is easy to follow it.

God’s laws are not subject to change and include things like getting angry at another person and passing by someone who is in need without helping them and entertaining lustful thoughts. we only now of two human beings who perfectly live up to God’s moral code. that would be our Lord Jesus and His Holy Mother Mary.

Since God never revealed to me - directly - what his “laws” are, I must follow my own code, which I believe is in compliance with God’s law. Taking your example, I do not consider “lustful thoughts” to be “sinful”. If my perception of God’s law is incorrect, he is most welcome to reveal to me where I erred. But - forgive me - no one speaks for God, not even the church or the pope or the magisterium. As far as I am concerned, all these “authorities” are self-authenticated.

 

[fred_conty]

First, I have no idea if this is the proper forum or not. If not, please move it where it belongs.
Second, I am not asking to reveal anything that you would utter in the confessional booth. None of my business.
Third, I do not wish to embarrass anyone.

But I am curious - in an abstract way.

What kinds of sins do you confess? What sins would the pope confess? What kinds of sins would he or the bishops or the priests commit? In my atheist world there are no sins. There could be crimes, of course. Or “bad”, “immoral” behaviors. (“immoral” according to my concept of morality). Different levels of crimes, some serious, some very minor. I would never dream about committing serious crimes, like murder or kidnap or rape. Not even minor ones, like taking a candy from a baby. In other words, when I think that one should not do something… I simply would not do it.

So I cannot fathom what kinds of actions which you would consider to be “sinful” or “immoral” and still you would be tempted to perform. And not just tempted, but actually DO it. The act, of course must be volitional, knowing full well that it a “disallowed” behavior. (Not necessarily a “grave” or “grievous” action.)

Of course, if you don’t wish to talk about it, then don’t. As I said, it is none of my business.

Here is what a Christian should consider.

Romans 13:10

The whole law is summed up in love.

Ephesians 4:29-32

Never let evil talk pass your lips; say only the good things men need to hear, things that will really help them. Do nothing that will sadden the Holy Spirit with whom you were sealed against the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, all passion and anger, harsh words, slander, and malice of every kind. In place of these, be kind to one another, compassionate, and mutually forgiving, just as God has forgiven you in Christ.

1 Peter 3:1-17

Finally: you should all agree among yourselves and be sympathetic; love the brothers, have compassion and be self-effacing. Never pay back one wrong with another, or an angry word with another one; instead, pay back with a blessing. That is what you are called to do, so that you inherit a blessing yourself. Remember: Anyone who wants to have a happy life and to enjoy prosperity must banish malice from his tongue, deceitful conversation from his lips; he must never yield to evil but must practice good; he must seek peace and pursue it.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7

Love is always patient and kind; it is never jealous; love is never boastful or conceited; it is never rude or selfish; it does not take offence, and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure in other people’s sins but delights in the truth; it is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes.

 

[jcrichton]

Of course I indulge in certain things, but in those which I consider wrong. I also gave examples which I could never commit, even if I thought that I could get away with it.

There was not one word about “perfection”. But I do not change my moral code, because I find it as good as possible. Of course I would change it, if there would be some rational argument to prove that this code is deficient or internally inconsistent.

Oh, but it is more complicated than that. But, of course every bit of it is rational, so it is easy to follow it.

Since God never revealed to me - directly - what his “laws” are, I must follow my own code, which I believe is in compliance with God’s law. Taking your example, I do not consider “lustful thoughts” to be “sinful”. If my perception of God’s law is incorrect, he is most welcome to reveal to me where I erred. But - forgive me - no one speaks for God, not even the church or the pope or the magisterium. As far as I am concerned, all these “authorities” are self-authenticated.

Hi!
Self-regulating and self-determining is God’s realm, hence you stand to usurp God–what I mean to convey is what I have attempted from the get go: you have a flexibility that allows to determine what is permissible (ie: lustful thoughts) so it is difficult for you to actually divine (as in guess) the workings of those who have a different (religious) code and while you express your adamant determination to never commit certain things (even if you could get away with it) it is difficult to gauge such action prior to a manifest temptation–that would be the proof/determining factor of your “moral code” (lest you simply just slide the gauge to “not immoral” as the various industries did in the eighties and nineties).

Though the exchange was interesting, I fear we are at that peek (circular argument). May you find peace. God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel