A Question About the Catechism...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Singinbeauty
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Singinbeauty

Guest
After reading many posts regarding the catechism that have been posted by catholics (especially in THIS thread) it brought up a question or two about it and how catholics view it. Not wanting to drag the thread off topic I have started this thread for discussion.

So, my first question really is this:

If the Catechism is an official teaching of the Catholic Church why would they be teaching from errant writings? Many of the posts within the thread I linked to regard the Catechism as wrong and not correct in its teachings. Why would the Catholic Church take ownership and teach from the Catechism if it is incorrect?

This is a serious question, so please - don’t flame me for it!
 
Singinbeauty said:
After reading many posts regarding the catechism that have been posted by catholics (especially in THIS thread) it brought up a question or two about it and how catholics view it. Not wanting to drag the thread off topic I have started this thread for discussion.

So, my first question really is this:

If the Catechism is an official teaching of the Catholic Church why would they be teaching from errant writings? Many of the posts within the thread I linked to regard the Catechism as wrong and not correct in its teachings. Why would the Catholic Church take ownership and teach from the Catechism if it is incorrect?

This is a serious question, so please - don’t flame me for it!
Click to expand...
Hi Singing Beauty! 👋

Can you be more specific? What teachings are you citing that are wrong that can be found in the Catechism?

(Tonks40 - a fellow karaoke singer…but that’s besides the point…)
 
Pretty much any of the teachings, are ANY of them wrong?

I don’t want to throw anyone under the bus but I am referring to the posts in the last couple of pages of the post I referred to…

(Karaoke ROCKS! LOL, sorry - couldn’t resist)
 
I’m not sure what comment(s) you were refering to on that thread as my brief look didn’t identify anything that suggested the Church knowingly teaches from false documents or thinks the Catechism is false.
 
Singinbeauty said:
… If the Catechism is an official teaching of the Catholic Church why would they be teaching from errant writings? …
Click to expand...
I’m not so sure that the Catechism is “official”. My understanding is that Church reserves to the right to release a new Catechism.

I think you’ll find that the official teachings of the Catholic Church come from:
i) Scripture
ii) Sacred Tradition
iii) Magisterium

I’m not so sure if the Catechism can be substituted for any of the above.

Just my thoughts. :twocents:
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
I’m not so sure that the Catechism is “official”. My understanding is that Church reserves to the right to release a new Catechism.

I think you’ll find that the official teachings of the Catholic Church come from:
i) Scripture
ii) Sacred Tradition
iii) Magisterium

I’m not so sure if the Catechism can be substituted for any of the above.

Just my thoughts. :twocents:
Click to expand...
No, the CCC should not be held above Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. The CCC was intended to be a summary of the teachings of the Church, with supporting documentation (Scripture, ECF writings, etc.) which are also supported by Tradition and the Magisterium.

Are you speaking of purgatory in particular? Or no salvation outside of the Catholic Church?
 
The CCC is NOT a codex of infallible doctrine, nor is it an exhaustive list of what the Catholic Church believes and teaches. It’s a teaching tool subject to change as the understanding of certain doctrines expands or changes. There is room for disagreement in some of what is found in the CCC, but there isn’t a lot of wiggle room. What is required is obedience not full consent.
 
Singinbeauty said:
After reading many posts regarding the catechism that have been posted by catholics (especially in THIS thread) it brought up a question or two about it and how catholics view it. Not wanting to drag the thread off topic I have started this thread for discussion.

So, my first question really is this:

If the Catechism is an official teaching of the Catholic Church why would they be teaching from errant writings? Many of the posts within the thread I linked to regard the Catechism as wrong and not correct in its teachings. Why would the Catholic Church take ownership and teach from the Catechism if it is incorrect?

This is a serious question, so please - don’t flame me for it!
Click to expand...
Well, if you’re a Biblical Fundamentalist, only the Bible counts, in your opinion, and there’s really nothing anyone can say to change your mind. Reasoning with Fundamentalists, of any religion, I have found is a waste of time. One of the things I love about America the most is its constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.👍
 
Personally, I have not found anything wrong in the CCC. It is not a final list of anything, but as point out earlier, a teaching tool that can be used to simplify the what Catholics beleive and why part of learning.

Some posters feel that the language is too soft at times. Some feel that the CCC is too diplomatic. Neither of these are dogmatic issues.

I would love to see someone give an example of something in the book that goes against Church teaching.
 
Those who claim the Catechism teaches falsely are wrong. I think they wish that it would agree with their views, but it does not.

I can’t state for sure that it is perfect and without error, but JPII declared it to be “a sure norm for teaching the faith”.

From
** APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
FIDEI DEPOSITUM**
ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:

“The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.”

Hope this helps,
Ruthie
 
Singinbeauty said:
After reading many posts regarding the catechism that have been posted by catholics (especially in THIS thread) it brought up a question or two about it and how catholics view it. Not wanting to drag the thread off topic I have started this thread for discussion.

So, my first question really is this:

If the Catechism is an official teaching of the Catholic Church why would they be teaching from errant writings? Many of the posts within the thread I linked to regard the Catechism as wrong and not correct in its teachings. Why would the Catholic Church take ownership and teach from the Catechism if it is incorrect?

This is a serious question, so please - don’t flame me for it!
Click to expand...
    1. The Bible is positively inspired as well as canonical
    1. The CCC is not inspired, & is a canon (= measuring-rod) for faith insofaras it expresses the Faith accurately. It is authoritative, non-infallible, may contain error; within these limits it provides an authentic account of the Catholic Faith.
    1. With the progress of understanding of the Deposit of Faith entrusted to the Church, & of the gift of theological wisdom, as well as the life of the world in which the Church is set, what was authentic may cease to be. This happened in the 1940s: Pius XII altered the teaching (expressed in the Catechism of the Council of Trent published in 1566) regarding the matter of the sacrament of ordination: in 1566, the matter had been the giving of the chalice & paten to the ordinand, since the 10th century; liturgical research in the meantime had shown the matter was the laying-on of hands.
    1. Official teaching is authoritative & authentic. The two words are not synonyms, nor is what is authoritative always doctrinal; the 1983 Code of Canon Law is an authoritative expression of the Pope’s will for the government of the Church; very little of it is doctrinal. Vatican 2’s teaching is not formally infallible except (AFAIK) when quoting texts already formally infallible; but its teaching is certainly both authoritative and authentic.
      Hope that - such as it is - helps 🙂 :o
BTW: the CCC does not confine itself to doctrinal matters: it makes its own the words of Liturgies & laws at times; neither of these is infallible, because they are not strictly doctrinal, though they may be related to doctrine. So it cannot be infallible when quoting them. The paragraph on the death penalty is not doctrine, but opinion (though a weighty one); it does not state a “doctrine to be held by all”.
 
Thank you so much for all of your answers. I am trying to digest them as well as I can but I do appreciate the honest, non-flaming answers.

From the beginning of me talking to catholics it seemed that the catechism was almost an extension of the bible. Some who seem very adamant seem to not take its information as true. Such as protestants not being brothers and/or sisters in Christ (for example) even though the catechism explains that we are.

Also, some don’t take Vatican II seriously. If this was declared (as I have been told) from the Catholic Church why would her followers not hold it to be true?
 
Singinbeauty said:
Thank you so much for all of your answers. I am trying to digest them as well as I can but I do appreciate the honest, non-flaming answers.

From the beginning of me talking to catholics it seemed that the catechism was almost an extension of the bible. Some who seem very adamant seem to not take its information as true. Such as protestants not being brothers and/or sisters in Christ (for example) even though the catechism explains that we are.

Also, some don’t take Vatican II seriously. If this was declared (as I have been told) from the Catholic Church why would her followers not hold it to be true?
Click to expand...

Partly because:​

  • V2 was hugely traumatic for a lot of people 😦 see Psalm 11: “the foundations [were] move[d]” for a lot of people
    &
  • part of this was that the past teaching of the CC seemed to rule out the present teaching. For a Church which emphasises infallibility, the authority of Popes & Ecumenical Councils & Tradition, the necessity of true doctrine for salvation, the differences from the past were really agonising. And another source of misery was the change in the Liturgy.
    Add to this a type of Catholicism in which obedience to authority in the Church is very highly emphasised, & you have the makings of a big problem. For the message people often heard was that they were being commanded by the Church - that was essential to their identities as Christians - to throw away what the same Church had a little while previously commanded them to believe on pain of excomunication from the same Church.
Which is a hideous dilemma to be in. So a lot of Catholics gave up Catholicism or the Pope or the Council. Theories about infiltration by [fill in name of “enemy of the Church”] are attempts to explain the problem; as is rejection of the Council in whole or part; or of this or that Pope, or series of them.
 
Part of the problem from VII had nothing to do with it per se. Before the final documents were even printed, liberals in the Church were making changes in “the spirit of Vatican II.” These changes, by and large, were not supported in the documents and some actually went against the Church’s teachings. The problem was that the people who did this or allowed it were in positions of power for years. Slowly, they were overrulled by people who saw that VII had nothing to do with females doing the homily, pittiful music, the destruction of beautiful alters, or any of that garbage. The same people who tried to use "the spirit of Vatican II’ allowed the sex abuse scandle to grow, encouraged homosexual clergy, fought hard to get rid of the habits of the nuns, and other things.

Once you see the actual papers, you are amazed at how all that occured. In reality, it occured because we let it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top