A question about the Hebrew Bible (Tanach)

[adrift]

From another thread:

b) The passage does not say that G-d will give the Jewish people a new Torah or a new set of scriptures. It says that at some future time, He will make a new covenant with us - which means that there will be a new deal or a new relationship between G-d and the Jewish people. The passage contrasts this new relationship with the old one. Unfortunatley, the Jewish people never totally lived up to their end of the deal after G-d took them out of Egypt. Although they were all supposed to observe the Torah, many Jewish people broke G-d’s covenant and failed to observe the Torah properly. This passage in Jeremiah tells us that at some future time, G-d will change this relationship by putting His Torah inside of us and writing it on our hearts. The prophet Jeremiah is not prophesying that at some future time G-d would give us a new Torah, but that He would put the original Torah inside of us.

The Bible was written over a persiod of many years. How do the Jews know when it was finished? Why is it not possible that more could be added to it?

 

[KarenNC]

From another thread:
The Bible was written over a persiod of many years. How do the Jews know when it was finished? Why is it not possible that more could be added to it?

You might do better to ask this on the NonCatholic Religions forum, where some Jews may be able to answer you. I know several hang out there.

 

[Zahava]

The Bible was written over a persiod of many years. How do the Jews know when it was finished? Why is it not possible that more could be added to it?

It is explicitly and clearly stated in the Torah that it [the Torah] is
an everlasting mitzvah, and cannot be changed, subtracted from or added to, as it is written, “Every matter which I command you observe to do it; you shall not add to it, or subtract from it”, and it is also written, “…but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of the Torah”.

From here we see that we have been commanded to keep all the commandments of the Torah for always. In connection with this it is written, “…a statute for ever throughout your generations”, and it is also written, “It is not in heaven”. From here we see that a prophet may not make any changes [at all] in the Torah.

Therefore, if a man, whether a gentile or a Jew, arises and performs signs and wonders, and says that God sent him to add to, or take away from, a mitzvah, or to institute a new mitzvah which we did not hear from Moses, or says that the commandments with which we have been commanded are not for eternity but are meant only for a temporary period, then he is a false prophet, for he has come to undermine the prophecy of
Moses.

God told Moses that all the commandments are for eternity, and no man can accuse God of being deceitful.

 

[adrift]

The Torah is the first five books right where does that leave the rest or is that all there is

 

[Zahava]

The Torah is the first five books right where does that leave the rest or is that all there is

We have the Torah / 5 books and we have the Prophets and the Writing. What the Christians call the E.T. We call Tanach

It can not be changed - not one ioto.

 

[adrift]

We have the Torah / 5 books and we have the Prophets and the Writing. What the Christians call the E.T. We call Tanach

It can not be changed - not one ioto.

It is explicitly and clearly stated in the Torah that it [the Torah] is
an everlasting mitzvah, and cannot be changed

Where is the verse that says it can’t be changed or added to? Was that written before the the Prophets and the writing so are they an addition?

 

[Kaninchen]

There’s often a paradigm problem underlying questions such as this.

The Tanakh and the ‘Old Testament’ may share the same books but they’re viewed entirely differently, the Tanakh does not need to prove a man was God, it doesn’t need to be a sealed seamless impermeable whole in order to do so.

The Torah is closed – by tradition they’re the Books of Moses and Moses isn’t around anymore.

‘Prophets’ and ‘Writings’ both have fundamental purposes (beyond being a ‘good uplifting read’ etc); they are for insights into Torah (‘The Law’ in one sense, ‘human existence’ in another).

Then there’s ‘Oral Torah’ (think words like ‘Midrash’ and ‘Talmud’), the collection of arguments, teachings and sayings of the sages/rabbis, which aid in the understanding of ‘The Law’. Oral Torah, however, is not some ‘add on’, the authority of the Tanakh itself is what the sages determined it to be – not as some kind of Magisterium but as groups of argumentative experts with, often, widely different opinions.

Since then there have been great figures such as Maimonides (Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon – ‘Rambam’) who have added their commentaries and understandings. The Halakhah (the legal side of Judaism) continues to develop as we’re challenged by the novel– just as, on a more prosaic level, somebody has to decide whether some new soft drink (or whatever) is kosher or not – and we have today’s rabbi’s and ‘sages’ who involve themselves in the process.

The question implies a search for certainty and authority (either in an inspired individual or the text) that is at the heart of the ‘Christian paradigm’. This is something, I’d suggest, that is absent from the ‘Jewish paradigm’, which is more about a continuous argument about how to deal with uncertainty – authority, it might be argued, lies in the argumentative traditions of the Jewish people rather than in coded beliefs.

 

[paarsurrey]

It is explicitly and clearly stated in the Torah that it [the Torah] is
an everlasting mitzvah, and cannot be changed, subtracted from or added to, as it is written, “Every matter which I command you observe to do it; you shall not add to it, or subtract from it”, and it is also written, “…but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of the Torah”.
From here we see that we have been commanded to keep all the commandments of the Torah for always. In connection with this it is written, “…a statute for ever throughout your generations”, and it is also written, “It is not in heaven”. From here we see that a prophet may not make any changes [at all] in the Torah.
Therefore, if a man, whether a gentile or a Jew, arises and performs signs and wonders, and says that God sent him to add to, or take away from, a mitzvah, or to institute a new mitzvah which we did not hear from Moses, or says that the commandments with which we have been commanded are not for eternity but are meant only for a temporary period, then he is a false prophet, for he has come to undermine the prophecy of
Moses.
God told Moses that all the commandments are for eternity, and no man can accuse God of being deceitful.

Hi
Could you please give the references from OTBible of the passages mentioned in your above post? I don’t think these are from the OTBible.
Thanks

The first and primary source on “Jesus did not die on Cross” - rather Jesus was not killed on Cross and later died naturally is the pristine Word of God revealed on the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi 1835-1908.

 

[KarenNC]

Hi
Could you please give the references from OTBible of the passages mentioned in your above post? I don’t think these are from the OTBible.

Not sure which translation Zahava is using, but here goes

"Every matter which I command you observe to do it; you shall not add to it, or subtract from it"

Deuteronomy 4:2 (New International Version)
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

Deut. 12:32
32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Proverbs 30: 5-6
5 "Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of the Torah

Deuteronomy 29:29
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.

a statute for ever throughout your generations

Several references to this in Exodus and Leviticus pertaining to specific laws or activities. Go to www.biblegateway.com and search on “ordinance.” Zahava may have a particular one in mind.

**“It is not in heaven”. **
Deut. 30: 10-14
10 if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.