A question concerning the responsorial Psalm

[ZDHayden]

At Mass today, the responsorial Psalm, according to the Ritual Song hymnal (and the USCCB website) was supposed to be Psalm 65. The Cantor/“music minister,” however, used a “hymn” based off Psalm 145. This struck me as improper, but was not certain about it as far as abuses are concerned. I thought about speaking to Father about this, but I was needed at home fairly soon after Mass. Should I speak to the priest about this, or should I let it slide? The cantor is relatively new - only about a month into the job (and completely changed the settings for the Mass last week which I, admittedly, am still getting used to . . . the Agnus Dei still sounds too happy in my opinion, but I shall try to offer it up) and this is the first . . . mistake of its kind. Thoughts? Many thanks.

 

[h1478971]

Report it to the Bishop. THIS IS LITURGICAL ABUSE!!!

 

[ZDHayden]

Report it to the Bishop. THIS IS LITURGICAL ABUSE!!!

Thank you for the quick response.

 

[laszlo]

Report it to the Bishop. THIS IS LITURGICAL ABUSE!!!

1. After the first reading comes the responsorial psalm or gradual, an integral part of the liturgy of the word. The psalm as a rule is drawn from the Lectionary because the individual psalm texts are directly connected with the individual readings: the choice of psalm depends therefore on the readings. Nevertheless,** in order that the people may be able to join in the responsorial psalm more readily, some texts of responses and psalms have been chosen, according to the different seasons of the year and classes of saints, for optional use**, whenever the psalm is sung, in place of the text corresponding to the reading.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/GIRM.HTM

 

[SMHW]

During Ordinary Time it is perfectly fine to use Psalm 145 rather than the psalm of the day since it is one of the seasonal psalms for ordinary time.

The concern would be whether it is really Psalm 145 or if it is a hymn that is loosely based on Psalm 145.

 

[ZDHayden]

During Ordinary Time it is perfectly fine to use Psalm 145 rather than the psalm of the day since it is one of the seasonal psalms for ordinary time.

The concern would be whether it is really Psalm 145 or if it is a hymn that is loosely based on Psalm 145.

If this is the case, thank Goodness! I would have to look again to see if it was the actual Psalm or a hymn loosely based upon it, however.

 

[OraLabora]

I shudder to think what people on this forum would say if at today’s Mass they heard a setting for Psalm 16 instead.

(Hint: for Masses using the Roman Gradual in its entirety, instead of the responsorial psalm the gradual hymn is used, and today’s is a few verses from Ps. 16-vulgate numbering).

This was NOT an abuse as others have pointed out. Have folks nothing better to do than to criticize?

 

[ZDHayden]

This was NOT an abuse as others have pointed out. Have folks nothing better to do than to criticize?

I am sorry if it seems that I was seeking to criticize the cantor. I simply noticed a discrepancy between the responsorial Psalm for today and what was actually done. I am shamed that that is the conclusion drawn - that I seek to criticize. If the cantor was in the right, then she was in the right. I admit that I dislike some of the changes she has made to the settings of the Mass - but, as I said in my first post, I will seek to offer that dislike up.

I was unfamiliar with the options available beyond what was written in the texts available to me. Perhaps I need to seek yet better instruction, which is one of the reasons I approached this forum. Perhaps I should learn to stay my tongue in my ignorance. My apologies.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

RESPONSORIALL HYMN

DO not be alarmed!

The Catholic CHurch can change the Responsorial Psalm at any time. It did not make the mass invalid.

At out Church, we do not even use those RS, they are taken from the GATHER HYMNAL

They are in the missalette, but we just do not like them and use the psalms from THE GATHER HYMNAL

SO, this is absolutely permitted. Be at peace.

 

[Corki]

During Ordinary Time it is perfectly fine to use Psalm 145 rather than the psalm of the day since it is one of the seasonal psalms for ordinary time.

The concern would be whether it is really Psalm 145 or if it is a hymn that is loosely based on Psalm 145.

My concern when using these seasonal psalms is that they aren’t printed anywhere accessible to the congregation. The OCP missalette says that Psalms X,Y and Z may be substituted but they don’t print X, Y or Z. How are we supposed to respond?

 

[MarkThompson]

I am sorry if it seems that I was seeking to criticize the cantor. I simply noticed a discrepancy between the responsorial Psalm for today and what was actually done. I am shamed that that is the conclusion drawn - that I seek to criticize. If the cantor was in the right, then she was in the right. I admit that I dislike some of the changes she has made to the settings of the Mass - but, as I said in my first post, I will seek to offer that dislike up.

I was unfamiliar with the options available beyond what was written in the texts available to me. Perhaps I need to seek yet better instruction, which is one of the reasons I approached this forum. Perhaps I should learn to stay my tongue in my ignorance. My apologies.

I thought your post was fine, ZD. It was actually, in terms of its tone, a refreshing respite from the interminable litany of posts that go like this:
Title: Is Mass a lot worse than it used to be?

Whatever happened to the olden days, when the women were all veiled, the children all above average, the phylacteries all enormous, and the responsorial psalm always the proper one assigned for the day? We have a super liberal priest at my parish (he drives a Prius), and the responsorial psalm is always WRONG IT IS AN ABUSE. It makes me so sad. Also, his homilies have a lot of sports references in them, and whatever happened to all the holy nuns who used to teach school? I guess you can’t go home again. I am so disappointed in the world – and especially in other people.

 

[benedictgal]

RESPONSORIALL HYMN

DO not be alarmed!

The Catholic CHurch can change the Responsorial Psalm at any time. It did not make the mass invalid.

At out Church, we do not even use those RS, they are taken from the GATHER HYMNAL

They are in the missalette, but we just do not like them and use the psalms from THE GATHER HYMNAL

SO, this is absolutely permitted. Be at peace.

This morning, I retained the response, but, exercised my legitimate option to use the verses from the Grail Psalter. It was not a hymn, but, a more correct translation of the psalm and easier to sing.

Now, here is the rest of what the GIRM states:

In the dioceses of the United States of America, the following may also be sung in place of the Psalm assigned in the Lectionary for Mass: either the proper or seasonal antiphon and Psalm from the Lectionary, as found either in the Roman Gradual or Simple Gradual or in another musical setting; or an antiphon and Psalm from another collection of the psalms and antiphons, including psalms arranged in metrical form, providing that they have been approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the responsorial Psalm.

Thus, if it were a hymn, then, the substitution was ilicit.

 

[Corki]

RESPONSORIALL HYMN

DO not be alarmed!

The Catholic CHurch can change the Responsorial Psalm at any time. It did not make the mass invalid.

At out Church, we do not even use those RS, they are taken from the GATHER HYMNAL

They are in the missalette, but we just do not like them and use the psalms from THE GATHER HYMNAL

SO, this is absolutely permitted. Be at peace.

Jim,

I understand what you are saying but the way in which you are saying it could be easily misunderstood.

Yes, the Church can chage the selection of Psalms. She can change all the readings, in fact. But that is a lengthy process which originate in the Vatican and not done “at any time”. An individual priest or cantor has some options but they are not open ended. The responsorial psalm in the missal is carefully chosen to be in harmony with the other readings. It is an important part of the Liturgy of the Word.

You are right, though, even if a parish randomly chose a hymn from the Gather hymnal as a substitue for the RS, it wouldn’t invalidate the Mass but that doesn’t mean it’s licit either.

 

[SMHW]

My concern when using these seasonal psalms is that they aren’t printed anywhere accessible to the congregation. The OCP missalette says that Psalms X,Y and Z may be substituted but they don’t print X, Y or Z. How are we supposed to respond?

I think sometimes seasonal psalms get used because whoever is responsible for choosing the psalm setting doesn’t know what to do with the psalm of the day and this person has been directed to make sure the psalm is sung. (Not every cantor/choir director/music director/other music person knows how to chant psalm tones.)

One of several possible reasons for using a seasonal psalm is so that it can be repeated often enough over the course of a few weeks for the congregation to learn it.

 

[TigerKitty]

One of several possible reasons for using a seasonal psalm is so that it can be repeated often enough over the course of a few weeks for the congregation to learn it.

This was exactly the case from a previous parish where I served as music director. The priest requested that we use one particular song (or a choice between 2 or 3 at most) during a single season, so that the people would have a chance to become comfortable with it and participate and singing. However, the song/psalm setting used for a particular day HAD to be one of the few psalm “choices” presented in the lectionary. If you look in the missalette closely, you will see that there are often multiple psalm choices listed.

 

[benedictgal]

This was exactly the case from a previous parish where I served as music director. The priest requested that we use one particular song (or a choice between 2 or 3 at most) during a single season, so that the people would have a chance to become comfortable with it and participate and singing. However, the song/psalm setting used for a particular day HAD to be one of the few psalm “choices” presented in the lectionary. If you look in the missalette closely, you will see that there are often multiple psalm choices listed.

However, a song is not one of them. Furthermore, the GIRM has been revised. One of the revisions concerns the responsporial psalm:

61(d). …nstead of the Psalm assigned in the lectionary, there may be sung either the Responsorial Gradual from the Graduale Romanum, or the Responsorial Psalm or the Alleluia Psalm from the Graduale Simplex, as described in these books, or an antiphon and Psalm from another collection of Psalms and antiphons, including Psalms arranged in metrical fonn, providing that they have been approved by the Conference of Bishops or the Diocesan Bishop. Songs or hymns may not be used in place of the Responsorial Psalm.

The revised GIRM, which is now in effect, retains the prohibition against using a song or a hymn in lieu of the responsorial psalm.

 

[LPS]

My concern when using these seasonal psalms is that they aren’t printed anywhere accessible to the congregation. The OCP missalette says that Psalms X,Y and Z may be substituted but they don’t print X, Y or Z. How are we supposed to respond?

This is my (very mild) objection at my church as well. The choir almost never uses the printed psalm, and sometimes whatever one they use is somewhat complicated.

I read the psalm that is printed, and usually can easily see how it relates to the day’s readings. The substituted psalms? I suppose, but I don’t really understand why they substitute.

It’s really not a huge deal to me, I just would prefer (if I were queen for a day) that they use the printed one.