A Question for Agnostics and OR Atheist

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PJM said:
So WHY my FRIEND do you suppose that historically the practice of one’s religion has been termed “FAITH”?
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*Defining or discussing what is “faith” is a touchy thing on these forums. It’s a minefield but oh well. (Flame suit ON!)

Cause it is an act of trust in the supernatural. However, I don’t see where you are going or what it has to do with anything.
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
*Defining or discussing what is “faith” is a touchy thing on these forums. It’s a minefield but oh well. (Flame suit ON!)

Cause it is an act of trust in the supernatural. However, I don’t see where you are going or what it has to do with anything.
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If faith was important to her, would it be important to you ?
 
KnowtheSilence said:
Blaming the end of a conversation on the person bowing out of the conversation seems wholly appropriate to me, but maybe this is just another area where we’ll have to agree to disagree.

“Canned” responses seem fitting for canned arguements, don’t you think? Or were you expecting (hoping?) that your arguements would be new to me? And could really expect that?

If you’ve been at this as long as you say you have, surely by now you’ve realized that conversations over these arguments for or against God’s existence have been done to death on a superficial level and don’t really get interesting until round 2 or 3. That’s where you can really start to see where you each hold different intuitions, what axioms you take for granted that the other person doesn’t, what lines of evidence they think are compelling or not, and so on.
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If you don’t see the need or have the time to go on, what on earth was this all for? Why start the thread, why put forward those arguments, why invite me to respond to them, and why try pressure Rhubarb into responding after they declined, if all you intended to do was call it quits so soon? It makes no sense at all. I suppose I have to take you at your word that you can respond to my responses, but with the way you’re acting I can’t help but suspect otherwise.

Indeed. I’ll continue to seek it seeing as I’ve made progress so far. I recommend you do the same.

And may reason guide yours.

Will do, God Bless and lead you,

Patrick
 
Techno2000 said:
If faith was important to her, would it be important to you ?
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To understand and respect it. Yes. However faking anyone’s faith would be incredibly disrespectful.

While I have attempted to “make” myself believe several times in the past it is just a bridge too far at this time.
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
To understand and respect it. Yes. However faking anyone’s faith would be incredibly disrespectful.

While I have attempted to “make” myself believe several times in the past it is just a bridge too far at this time.
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Like I said on this post before … one must want to believe, it has to be your own will, God doesn’t force you to go to Heaven.
 
undead_rat said:
Would you say the same about St. Pius X when he reported:

** “This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world.”?**
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No I would not. Pius X said “beginning”, he did not state an end date. My argument works from the end date backwards. Without an end date my argument does not apply. Pope Pius avoided the logical error. You were less successful.

rossum
 
rossum said:
No I would not. Pius X said “beginning”, he did not state an end date. My argument works from the end date backwards. Without an end date my argument does not apply. Pope Pius avoided the logical error. You were less successful.

rossum
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Thank you for the correction. I’ll go with what Pope St. Pius X said then.

The last days of the world have begun.
 
rossum said:
According to Christianity they began when Jesus ascended into heaven.
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Does that mean that you think that Pope St. Pius X’s vision is in error?

"This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world."
 
undead_rat said:
Does that mean that you think that Pope St. Pius X’s vision is in error?

"This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world."
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I am not Christian, look at the top right of my posts. According to Buddhist scriptures, there is between 5,000 and 10,000 years from Gautama Buddha to Maitreya Buddha. The end of the current material universe (but not of the universe as a whole) will happen some time after the death of Maitreya, though it could be tens of thousands of years after. A new material universe will arise at some undetermined point after the end of the old one.

The cosmology of the Indian religions is very different from the cosmology of the Abrahamic religions.

rossum
 
rossum said:
I am not Christian, look at the top right of my posts. According to Buddhist scriptures, there is between 5,000 and 10,000 years from Gautama Buddha to Maitreya Buddha. The end of the current material universe (but not of the universe as a whole) will happen some time after the death of Maitreya, though it could be tens of thousands of years after. A new material universe will arise at some undetermined point after the end of the old one.

The cosmology of the Indian religions is very different from the cosmology of the Abrahamic religions.
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Thanks for the info, but it is not really a direct answer to my question.

BTW, the “Last days of the World” does not refer to the end of the material universe. It does indicate the fulfillment of the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and others concerning YHWH’s judgment of mankind by fire.

PS: I have been aware that you noted “Buddhist” as your religious preference.
 
As for ME, I AM afraid to “make my own” so I stick to those of GOD [singular] and HIS Roman Catholic Faith and Church

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
KnowtheSilence said:
Blaming the end of a conversation on the person bowing out of the conversation seems wholly appropriate to me, but maybe this is just another area where we’ll have to agree to disagree.

“Canned” responses seem fitting for canned arguements, don’t you think? Or were you expecting (hoping?) that your arguements would be new to me? And could really expect that?

If you’ve been at this as long as you say you have, surely by now you’ve realized that conversations over these arguments for or against God’s existence have been done to death on a superficial level and don’t really get interesting until round 2 or 3. That’s where you can really start to see where you each hold different intuitions, what axioms you take for granted that the other person doesn’t, what lines of evidence they think are compelling or not, and so on.

If you don’t see the need or have the time to go on, what on earth was this all for? Why start the thread, why put forward those arguments, why invite me to respond to them, and why try pressure Rhubarb into responding after they declined, if all you intended to do was call it quits so soon? It makes no sense at all. I suppose I have to take you at your word that you can respond to my responses, but with the way you’re acting I can’t help but suspect therwise.

Indeed. I’ll continue to seek it seeing as I’ve made progress so far. I recommend you do the same.

And may reason guide yours.
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My friend, I did NOT “can” my post #16 which you have chosen to ignore the MERITS of.

But as I later shared conversions are GOD"S exclusive territory. So I’ll leave the hard work for you and God.

You have failed to in an original manner, refute my claims which are logical and discernible

God Bless you

Patrick
 
PJM said:
If you don’t see the need or have the time to go on, what on earth was this all for? Why start the thread, why put forward those arguments, why invite me to respond to them, and why try pressure Rhubarb into responding after they declined, if all you intended to do was call it quits so soon? It makes no sense at all. I suppose I have to take you at your word that you can respond to my responses, but with the way you’re acting I can’t help but suspect otherwise.
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Indeed. I’ll continue to seek it seeing as I’ve made progress so far. I recommend you do the same.

And may reason guide yours.

Will do, God Bless and lead you,

Patrick

I have clearly MADE by point and will not be dragged into a discussion aimed at derailing them. Your points were the SAME as I have encountered in the past and responded too, and I don’t see the value of investing the time to do so again.

But thanks for the offer:)

God Bless you,

Patrick
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
Do you not see the problem with that?
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No actually I don’t:o

GOD commits Himself to OFFER “sufficient” grace to every soul that they COULD and CAN know of him and then if accepted, to actually come to really KNOW Him.

But it’s a gift, and like any gift it can be and often is refused or demanded to be accepted on the THERMS of the "one being offered the gift. …That is as it should be; unacceptable with GOD.

Blessings,

Patrick
 
Techno2000 said:
No , can you explain ?
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If one is not sufficiently distressed or worried about the finite nature of life, what happens after death, or the supposed problem of “meaning”, and a few other things, then there is little reason to want to believe in the first place. Secondly, it is nearly impossible for some of us to make ourselves want something.

Besides, other than social/familial pressure why would one want to believe?
 
HerCrazierHalf said:
If one is not sufficiently distressed or worried about the finite nature of life, what happens after death, or the supposed problem of “meaning”, and a few other things, then there is little reason to want to believe in the first place. Secondly, it is nearly impossible for some of us to make ourselves want something.

Besides, other than social/familial pressure why would one want to believe?
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Thanks for this question as it adds a bit of relevancy to my rants about the Last Days of the World. As the cliché goes, “no atheists in foxholes.” The whole world is going to become a battleground.
Imagine how people will feel if they think a nuclear armed ICBM is on its way to their city. This kind of thing will surely shake men and women out of their complacency.

BTW, in my opinion, none of us here really “believe” as much as they purport to, and none disbelieve as much either.
 
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