a question for all the protestanta (particularly pentecostals)

[JonNC]

This is not correct. I suspect they may use valid matter. As for form I do not know what words they use; their form may be valid or invalid. There is the intent of the priest to consider. Would a Lutheran ‘priest’ have the correct intent. The one certain aspect of the Lutheran Eucharist is the lack of a valid priesthood. Without valid priests the Eucharist cannot be confected.

Matthew, you do well to state the position of the Catholic Church. We respectfully disagree.

Jon

 

[GKC]

Matthew, you do well to state the position of the Catholic Church. We respectfully disagree.

Jon

That happens.

GKC

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Matthew, you do well to state the position of the Catholic Church. We respectfully disagree.

Jon

Perhaps you could assist me in two matters. Can you explain your religious affiliation? You employ the word ‘catholic’ but reject the teaching of the Catholic Church. I am also interested to know why you refer to yourself regally in the first person plural.

 

[benjohnson]

Perhaps you could assist me in two matters. Can you explain your religious affiliation? You employ the word ‘catholic’ but reject the teaching of the Catholic Church. I am also interested to know why you refer to yourself regally in the first person plural.

Not to speak for Jon, but Wikipedia has a rather well written article on what an “evanglical catholic” is:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Catholic

Keep in mind, that Lutherans view themselves as a vaild contiunation a renewed western church. Feel free to disagree with that!

I think when Jon says “we”, he is refering to himself and other members of his church, like me.

 

[Izdaari]

I was Pentecostal (Assemblies of God) at that beginning of this year. We had communion the first Sunday of each month, and officially our denomination believed it was symbolic. However, I believed in Real Presence and still do.

That was one of the factors in my jumping ship and going over to an Episcopal/Lutheran church (with both TEC & ELCA affiliations) last Spring. But honestly, disenchantment with conservative evangelical culture and politics, and gradually becoming theologically more liberal (though still orthodox) were larger factors.

I seem to fit that wiki definition of Evangelical Catholic, of the Anglican/Lutheran variety.

I would also fit their defintion of “Emergent” or "emerging church
:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_church

 

[TC2]

As a Baptist, I can only speak for my church.

We consider the Lord’s Supper to be symbolic, but also significant.
The congregation is urged to urged to examine themselves and repent of sin
and rebellion before taking communion. Anyone not a member of our church but
attending at the time may also partake after reflection/repentance if they are validly
baptised.

Our pastor frowns on people knowingly taking it while in sin, or against our rules for it.
My husband did this, but later did confess to our pastor and apologised (as well as asking
forgiveness of our Lord). I myself refused the LS last time it was offered as I did not feel
I was in a fit state.

So it’s not something that’s done facitiously (sp). As least in our church.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Not to speak for Jon, but Wikipedia has a rather well written article on what an “evanglical catholic” is:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Catholic

Keep in mind, that Lutherans view themselves as a vaild contiunation a renewed western church. Feel free to disagree with that!

I think when Jon says “we”, he is refering to himself and other members of his church, like me.

I infer from this that Jon is Lutheran. Wikipedia says “Evangelical Catholics” can be Latin Catholics. Perhaps you know Jon and know he’s a Lutheran who calls himself an evangelical catholic.

I respect Lutheranism as I respect the belief/creed/faith of anyone. Obviously, I disagree that they have a valid Eucharist.

 

[sophion]

When a person comes to the realization that the real presence is only found in the Catholic mass…one is the bound to be Catholic…as I was and am. Some people are so revulsed at that idea that they fight the truth…they won’t hear it. This is the power of prejudice and false teaching.

is there any real difference between a devoted catholic who ate the “real presence” and the devoted protestant who ate a symbol?

no difference at all.

one is just as moral as the other.
one is just as spiritual as the other.
one is just as human as the other.
its all in the head.

 

[benjohnson]

is there any real difference between a devoted catholic who ate the “real presence” and the devoted protestant who ate a symbol?

I would think that that John 6:56 saying “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.” would give more comfort to the Catholic (and Lutheran, Anglican and Orthodox) than to the protestant who ate a symbol.

I go to the alter rail on my knees to receive the True Body and True Blood of our Lord. It really isn’t a mid-service snack of bread and wine.

Here’s a Lutheran Lord’s Supper - 'ye olde tyme style.

http://cyberbrethren.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/kyrko3.jpg

 

[benjohnson]

is there any real difference between a devoted catholic who ate the “real presence” and the devoted protestant who ate a symbol?

I would think that that John 6:56 saying “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.” would give more comfort to the Catholic (and Lutheran, Anglican and Orthodox) than to the protestant who ate a symbol.

I go to the alter rail on my knees to receive the True Body and True Blood of our Lord. It really isn’t a mid-service snack of bread and wine.

Here’s a Lutheran Lord’s Supper - 'ye olde tyme style.

http://cyberbrethren.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/kyrko3.jpg

 

[sophion]

I would think that that John 6:56 saying “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.” would give more comfort to the Catholic (and Lutheran, Anglican and Orthodox) than to the protestant who ate a symbol.

what you say is probably true. but is it just the ‘comfort’?

 

[JonNC]

Perhaps you could assist me in two matters. Can you explain your religious affiliation? You employ the word ‘catholic’ but reject the teaching of the Catholic Church. I am also interested to know why you refer to yourself regally in the first person plural.

Ben spoke well of evangelical catholic. Please note that I clearly list in my profile LCMS - Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.
I was speaking as a Lutheran, “we” meaning Lutherans. Nothing regal about it. It is typical and normative for people of any group to speak of beliefs in terms of “our” or “we”.

Jon

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Ben spoke well of evangelical catholic.

He referred me to a Wikipedia article on evangelical catholics. That did not make things clear. The said article says a number of different Christians use the term.

Please note that I clearly list in my profile LCMS - Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.

I did not know the abbreviation. It is “normative” to state what something is in full prior to abbreviating it.

I was speaking as a Lutheran, “we” meaning Lutherans. Nothing regal about it. It is typical and normative for people of any group to speak of beliefs in terms of “our” or “we”.

Jon

I did not discern what you said to be representing Lutherans rather than you making a statement.

Because I did not know your religious affiliation I was unclear on why you claimed Lutherans have a valid Eucharist. Now, I know why you beleive this.

 

[JonNC]

He referred me to a Wikipedia article on evangelical catholics. That did not make things clear. The said article says a number of different Christians use the term.

I did not know the abbreviation. It is “normative” to state what something is in full prior to abbreviating it.

I did not discern what you said to be representing Lutherans rather than you making a statement.

Because I did not know your religious affiliation I was unclear on why you claimed Lutherans have a valid Eucharist. Now, I know why you beleive this.

Accept my apologies for being unclear. I’ve been here a while, and most folks here, a) know me, and b) know what LCMS means. Perhaps I could alter my profile.

Jon

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Accept my apologies for being unclear. I’ve been here a while, and most folks here, a) know me, and b) know what LCMS means. Perhaps I could alter my profile.

Jon

I wonder if it is because LCMS refers to an American branch (if that term is appropriate in general conversation) of the Lutheran Church it is more familiar to most CAF members who I believe are American. As a limey I have never heard of it.

 

[pismopal]

What about the Orthodox, PNCC, and others whom the CC recognize as having valid orders and sacraments?

What about them?..I said I was a Catholic not an expert on world religions…AND I don’t know that our Church “said” anything about valid (all seven)Sacraments for any other denomination. I do know that I have them all where I am.

Originally Posted by MaeganFlinchum1
hello! i used to be pentecostal and we had communion every Easter. i always thought it was symbolic. (not the True Presence just a plain bread and grape juice) i thought pentecostals just did this as a memorial while belieiving their communion was symbolic. am i right?? ALL PROTESTANS ANSWER!!! (Catholic comments welcome too)

While I can’t speak for Pentecostals, as I’m not one, not all protestants deny the real presence. Lutherans certainly discern Christ’s real presence in the Sacrament,and with all due respect to Catholic claims to the contrary, we know His body and blood is what we receive in a Lutheran Lord’s Supper.

Jon

Jon

 

[JonNC]

I wonder if it is because LCMS refers to an American branch (if that term is appropriate in general conversation) of the Lutheran Church it is more familiar to most CAF members who I believe are American. As a limey I have never heard of it.

Ah. Yes. That’s the difference! We’re an American synod. Hope the change helps, Matthew, and again, sorry for the confusion.

Jon

 

[RyanBlack]

What about them?..I said I was a Catholic not an expert on world religions…AND I don’t know that our Church “said” anything about valid (all seven)Sacraments for any other denomination. I do know that I have them all where I am.

Well, first of all the Orthodox Church is not a denomination; it is a Church. Second of all, the Roman Catholic Church does in fact teach that they have valid sacraments. The CCC, in section 1399, states:

The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. “These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy.”

 

[JonNC]

What about them?..I said I was a Catholic not an expert on world religions…AND I don’t know that our Church “said” anything about valid (all seven)Sacraments for any other denomination.** I do know that I have them all where I am.**

And may you be blessed by them.

Jon

 

[pismopal]

And may you be blessed by them.

Jon

Thank you…and you by yours.