a question for "Bible Only" churches

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Dokimas said:
Nothing/

Does it make you feel better to make such statement? Does it make you think you are better
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No it does not make me feel better. It shows there is a lack of ‘honest’ discussion by the avoidance of answering direct questions and latching on to a new topic to avoid the discussion of this ‘evidence’.

People following this discussion can see it for what it is and I don’t think it’s helping your view.
 
Prodigal Son in black; Doki in color

It is very noticable that you failed to address my question on the verse telling us to obey our prelates. It is equally obvious you missed that I asked you what ‘prelates’ mean. It’s just as noticable that you now say, ‘IF your disagreement is truth based…’ So, much for that evidence I suppose. Whatever??? :rolleyes:

How many scriptures tell us to be of the same mind and judgement, a lot of the same accord and to take note of those creating dissensions? a lot Christ even prayed that we all be ONE as He and the Father are one. Correct. But many members, of many denominations with different doctrines, are a part of the ‘same’ Church. Ahh, but there I go, using scriptures and showing I disagree. I guess that makes me hypocritical. Not at all. Using Scripture is wonderful as long as it’s used correctly.

I remember a discussion where a poster relied on some verses in John, and I stated, ‘Christ was only speaking to the Apostles’, to which you told me to, ‘prove it’. I told you to read John 14 through 18 and see that the only audience was the Apostles. **I answer you by pointing out what Jesus said in His prayer in chpt 17. He included all believers (John 17:20) **But, that wasn’t proof enough. Now, I must admit to error, based on some evidence you claim, without seeing any evidence first. It is very tiring responding to your misrepresentations of what I’ve said. I NEVER asked you to agree with evidence you have not seen. I DID ask you if I showed you evidence that your understanding about the CC being the ONE and ONLY true church was incorrect, would you accept it and look a little differently at the CC. That’s somehow avoiding a question, as you’ve stated multiple times. Whatever??? There’s so much double standard here, it’s easy to see there’s more than ‘sharing’ our beliefs…
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
No it does not make me feel better. It shows there is a lack of ‘honest’ discussion by the avoidance of answering direct questions and latching on to a new topic to avoid the discussion of this ‘evidence’.

People following this discussion can see it for what it is and I don’t think it’s helping your view.
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I’m getting from this that you’re superior. I submit to that.
 
Dokimas said:
I’m getting from this that you’re superior. I submit to that.
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There is only one superior and He gave us a Church, that gave us scriptures. Together, one can learn alot about His truth.
 
Dokimas said:
**I answer you by pointing out what Jesus said in His prayer in chpt 17. He included all believers (John 17:20) **.
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He included us all to be one. He did not, however, grant us the authority to ‘assume’ authority within His Church, or appoint others into authority positions in His Church.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
He included us all to be one. He did not, however, grant us the authority to ‘assume’ authority within His Church, or appoint others into authority positions in His Church.
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You’ve now changed the subject. You told me the Holy Spirit’s understanding was only given to the disciples and I disagreed. Now your saying I said all are included in the authority structure of the church Jesus founded or that authority to appoint leaders. I NEVER said such a thing.​

At least now your misstaking what you have said. Now I don’t have to take it personal.😃
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
There is only one superior and He gave us a Church, that gave us scriptures. Together, one can learn alot about His truth.
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Wouldn’t it be nice if we’d just get out of the Lord’s way and let Him lead and direct?
 
Dokimas said:

You’ve now changed the subject. You told me the Holy Spirit’s understanding was only given to the disciples and I disagreed. Now your saying I said all are included in the authority structure of the church Jesus founded or that authority to appoint leaders. I NEVER said such a thing.​

At least now your misstaking what you have said. Now I don’t have to take it personal.😃
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I thought I remembered you disputing the authoritative Church. In reference to the Holy Spirit guiding and teaching all things, that was spoken only to the Apostles, the men Christ chose and appointed over His Church.

When He prayed that we be one, He prayed we be one through His Church, or more specifically those men He chose and appointed over His Church.

Read John 17 and note He doesn’t include ‘us’ until verse 20, and then it’s through those He chose and appointed.
Joh 17:20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
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It is through His Church and His Church was always meant to be one.
 
It doesn’t matter who wrote the Letter to the Hebrews. It is still a commandment from the Holy Spirit that we must obey our appointed Bishops (aka “prelates.”)

Those who disobeyed their Church leaders in the past, and in so doing, led people out of the Catholic Church, were in the wrong, regardless of how good they may have thought their reasons were, at the time.
 
jmcrae said:
It doesn’t matter who wrote the Letter to the Hebrews. It is still a commandment from the Holy Spirit that we must obey our appointed Bishops (aka “prelates.”)

Those who disobeyed their Church leaders in the past, and in so doing, led people out of the Catholic Church, were in the wrong, regardless of how good they may have thought their reasons were, at the time.
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I agree that we must obey what the writer said in Hebrews 13​

The command to obey comes with the idea to only obey if the leaders are leading correctly. If a pastor tells a women that to get close to God she must have sex with him, she is NOT to obey her pastor (protestant or catholic).

I, however, must remind you that people like Martin Luther saw things in the RCC that needed to be changed. The church refused and excommunicated him (and others). They desired to worship and serve God. The results were new churches. You can’t blame them that the result of them being turned away from the RCC was a new church. The RCC bears some responsibility, where any here agrees or not.
 
Dokimas said:

I agree that we must obey what the writer said in Hebrews 13​

The command to obey comes with the idea to only obey if the leaders are leading correctly. If a pastor tells a women that to get close to God she must have sex with him, she is NOT to obey her pastor (protestant or catholic).

I, however, must remind you that people like Martin Luther saw things in the RCC that needed to be changed. The church refused and excommunicated him (and others). They desired to worship and serve God. The results were new churches. You can’t blame them that the result of them being turned away from the RCC was a new church. The RCC bears some responsibility, where any here agrees or not.
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Christ taught the people to observe and do all those who sat in the chair of Moses said to them, but do not do as they do. He never told anyone if you don’t agree with what they said to you, go start a new Church, whether anyone here wants to agree with that or not.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Christ taught the people to observe and do all those who sat in the chair of Moses said to them, but do not do as they do. He never told anyone if you don’t agree with what they said to you, go start a new Church, whether anyone here wants to agree with that or not.
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What were those like Martin Luther to do when they were excommunicated?
 
Dokimas said:
He could choose to say indulgences were godly. Not much of a choice therefore the RCC played a big part in what happened.
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He could have done as the ‘authority’ said, and not done as they did.

See, the problem with your view, in my opinion, is that the Church did reform, from within. You cannot change something from outside. Where did Christ, or the Apostles, teach to abandon the Church? They didn’t.

How can one imagine that ‘man’ could improve on what Christ built? 🤷
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Christ taught the people to observe and do all those who sat in the chair of Moses said to them, but do not do as they do. He never told anyone if you don’t agree with what they said to you, go start a new Church, whether anyone here wants to agree with that or not.
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What do you believe about the chair of Moses specifically? I have seen you mention this for time to time in different contexts dealing with authority.
What was it?
Please be specific as possible.
What does it mean now?
How is it applicable now?
When you have time.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
He could have done as the ‘authority’ said, and not done as they did.

See, the problem with your view, in my opinion, is that the Church did reform, from within. You cannot change something from outside. Where did Christ, or the Apostles, teach to abandon the Church? They didn’t.

How can one imagine that ‘man’ could improve on what Christ built? 🤷
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You are assuming the Holy Spirit did not go with M Luther. Wasn’t it one of the ECFs that said that where Jesus/Holy Spirit is there is the church. If the Holy Spirit was with M Luther he was part of the church.​

I can see this is going to go the way of all the discussions between you and me.
 
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