A Question for Catholic Creationist

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You may believe that people left the church for that reason. I think they don’t believe in God and they’ve taken in so much of this culture that they can’t seem to see that a pregnant woman is pregnant with a baby. When it comes to God they say ‘show me scientific proof’ and yet they will not take the word of science that a woman is carrying a baby.

There is way more going on. There is a battle of light and darkness. We all get to choose, do we follow God, or not. It’s pretty hard to convince someone to change to follow God with debate.
 
TMC

Please read my op I think it could clarify some misunderstanding you seem to carry.
 
12m

You may believe that people left the church for that reason. I think they don’t believe in God and they’ve taken in so much of this culture that they can’t seem to see that a pregnant woman is pregnant with a baby. When it comes to God they say ‘show me scientific proof’ and yet they will not take the word of science that a woman is carrying a baby.

There is way more going on. There is a battle of light and darkness. We all get to choose, do we follow God, or not. It’s pretty hard to convince someone to change to follow God with debate.
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Allot of truth in there for sure. But that does not make it not so that for me and many others, this is not the case, but good point. Many want it to be true but cant accept what they think is falsehood. I want Catholicism to be true but cant when i read certain things like its stance in the CCC on creation/evolution.
 
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Did it ever occur to you that the word “day” in the bible can mean an “aeon” of time, and not a 24 hour day?
 
Creationism is harmful. We need to put this to bed because Creationism is birthing atheists. Listen! Even if evolution were true it wouldn’t change anything! If evolution were proven true would that change the historical reality and fact that Jesus of Nazareth lived the most miraculous life in history? Would it change the fact that Jesus was crucified on the cross and rose again 3 days later? No, it would not.

Dr. WILLIAM LANE CRAIG (Analytic Philosopher and Theologian)
during a debate with Atheist philosopher Christopher Hitchens said.

"Now he did make some remarks about evolution and he insinuated that this was somehow incompatible with Theism. I have two points to make about this. First I have to say is that Biological evolution is simply irrelevant to the truth of Christian Theism. Genesis 1 fits all manner of different interpretations and one is by no means committed to a 6 day creationism. Is the concept of creationism required of all persons who trust in the creator God of scripture? Most Christians who are either engaged with scientific fields or biblical scholarship have concluded that the creationist picture of the world’s formation is not a necessary component of Christian belief. Nor is this a retreat caused by modern science. St. Augustine in the A.D. 300s wrote a commentary on Genesis and pointed out that the days do not need to be taken literally nor need the creation be a few thousand years ago. Indeed he suggested that God made the world with certain special potencies that would gradually unfold over time and develop. This interpretation came 1,500 years before Darwin! So, it is not a forced retreat in the face of modern science!

Any doubts I would have about the theory of biological evolution would be scientific and not biblical. Barrow and Tipler two physicists who wrote the Anthropic Cosmological principle lists 10 steps in the course of Human Evolution and each of which is so improbable that before it would occur the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and incinerated the Earth. They calculate the probability of the development of the human genome to be somewhere between 4 to the negative 180th power to the 110,000 power and 4 to the negative 360th power to the 110,000 power! So, if evolution did occur on this planet it was literally a miracle and therefore evidence for the existence of God!" :sunglasses:BOOM! CROWD GOES CRAZY 😎

"So, I don’t think this is an argument for Atheism.Quite the contrary it provides good grounds for thinking that God super intended the process of biological development. So, the Christian can be open to the evidence and follow it to where it leads. You have to feel sorry for the atheist because their presuppositions determine the outcome no matter how improbable or fantastical because they cannot follow the evidence to where it leads. However, if there is a fine tuner and creator of the universe then already in the initial conditions of the big bang you have an elaborately designed universe that permits the evolution and existence of intelligent life."
 
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and if all thought like you it might not matter. But million leave the church who would disagree with your own personal “interpretation.”
 
Tolkien, which passage specifically says a day is 24 hour and the earth is 6k years old.

Please also , given you are a creationist as you say, you will not believe in the fossil record so why do you claim this
Tolkien1096 said:
I would say that carbon dating shows why the earth is not old and the fossil record shows a global flood and why evolution is imaginative.
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Your argument is so confusing
 
Tolkien1096 said:
Christians think the bible gives the account of God creating the world as he did not to mislead people.
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Which account of the creation story do you base your literal interpretation on? If the creation narrative has to be taken as a literal account, one version must be untrue.
 
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First off, I think the assertion that millions like you use your exact reasoning to reject the Bible as a little bit of hyperbole. Second, people reject God for many biblical reasons. A homosexual may reject it for sexual reasons, a victim of slavery may reject it for reasons as well. I encourage you to read John chapter 6. The chapter Catholics take more literally than any single Protestant and notice that people walk away. If your faith is in the falseness of evolution as proof of God’s Holy word then you have no real faith in God. That is a silly thing to leave over but if you feel you must then we’ll, you must. It isn’t much of a problem considering if evolution was true and God put it in Genesis that for thousands of years people would have no idea what it was saying.
But then again I doubt God could have written the current theory of evolution as truth because I don’t think it is the whole truth and the theory contains errors.
 
Microevolution it ture, but Macroevolution has never been proven.
 
And thus spoke the Lord:

““As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

But let me give you, a nomadic, illiterate people, a detailed scientific description of exactly how I formed all of creation. First, let me tell you about atoms. No, you can’t see them but…hey, I hope you’re writing this all down…
 
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Oh really? So, the truth can only come out of the mouths of Catholics and no one else? He may not be Catholic but he cites St. Augustine who was Catholic.

"St. Augustine in the A.D. 300s wrote a commentary on Genesis and pointed out that the days do not need to be taken literally nor need the creation be a few thousand years ago. Indeed he suggested that God made the world with certain special potencies that would gradually unfold over time and develop. This interpretation came 1,500 years before Darwin! So, it is not a forced retreat in the face of modern science!"

St. Augustine is a far more credible source than you and indeed most people. Christians do not need to be in conflict with scientific truth! Nicolaus Copernicus was a Catholic Priest who definitively proved the heliocentric model of the solar system. Christianity’s harmony with science is what made Western Civilization the greatest force in history. All the other false faiths of the world require their adherents to sacrifice their reason and their God given mind to believe absurd things. Buddhist and Hindus believe in reincarnation despite having no evidence for it. Muslims believe that Jesus was never crucified completely ignoring all historical evidence.

Christians do not need to sacrifice their minds and evolution does NOT disprove that Jesus is the Son of God and was crucified and rose from the dead and lived the most miraculous life in History.
 
I think evolution is a definitively established fact. You’re welcome to believe as you wish.

Evolution has no bearing whatsoever–as far as I can tell–on anything relating to Jesus Christ. To me, the account of creation in Genesis is a way of explaining something that was completely beyond the understanding of ancient man. God is creator, but His method is rather irrelevant.

“There are no difficulties in explaining the origin of man in regard to the body by means of the theory of evolution. According to the hypothesis mentioned it is possible that the human body, following the order impressed by the Creator on the energies of life, could have gradually been prepared in the form of antecedent living beings [i.e. living beings that existed prior to humanity].”

John Paul II, “Humans are Spiritual and Corporeal Beings”, April 16, 1986.
 
The Biblical text makes it perfectly clear that the six “days” are not days in our modern sense of one revolution of the Earth in its orbit about the Sun, because the Bible speaks of a “day” even before the creation of the earth.

Therefore by “day” we must understand an age in God’s sight. The psalmist says “a thousand ages in Thy sight are but as yesterday”

Furthermore there is no clear statement that the six days were not separated from each other.

It is thus possible to believe both in the literal creation taking place in six days of a length known only to God, and in the creation having taken place billions of years ago.

Evolution is a different question which the discovery of the shared dna of different species poses a serious challenge to the traditional understanding of man as a separately created species.
 
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Techno2000 said:
Microevolution it ture, but Macroevolution has never been proven
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  1. There is no such thing as microevolution
  2. There is no such thing as macroevolution
  3. All species share genetic material. Genetic material is passed on through descent. Therefore all species are related by descent. Therefore evolution is a fact.
Modern understanding of genetics means there is no longer any possibility of a rational debate about whether species are related by descent, i.e. that they evolved from earlier species.
 
l heard someone on twitter argue that both creationism can be true, even though evolution is true.
The explanation for that was ‘God is omnipotent’. In that case, everything is possible, but unlikely.
That is not a strong argument.
Also, omnipotence as far as am aware, cannot break the laws of logic, in particular the law of non contradiction.
 
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