A Question for Catholics

[KindredSoul]

No! I believe that God gave us His Word to lead us to Jesus Christ and to guild us in our walk with Him. It is your responsibity to study the Bible and let it speak to us. Jereimiah said "thy Word is in my heart as a flaming fire: (20:9) We need to have Gods Word hid in your Hearts, Psalm 119;10 Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee. Knowing gods word helps us not sin. This is why we Baptist make memorizing scripture so important.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

Actually, considering that chapters and verses weren’t always in the Bible, I’m quite sure that to internalize the written Word (or spoken Word before parts of the Bible were written or widely available–indeed, we mustn’t forget that such a time exists!)
means to have a grasp on the character, not exact chapter and verse. It’s more important to know that Christ died for us than to know exactly what verses in all four Gospels, topped off with every reference in the epistles, say as much. Memorizing chapters and verses can be helpful and very admirable for sure (it’s a positive of Protestantism, to give compliments where they are due :yup but an absence of such strict memorization does not mean a person has failed to “study the Bible and let it speak”.

 

[Stephen_C]

Allis,
He is going to mass right? So he is getting three bible readings each mass. So my guess he knows the bible just not able to quote chapter and verse. My guess since he is still going to mass weekly, he knows Jesus as his Savior.
Are you and he friends?

 

[scylla]

His simple love for Christ should be sufficient, even if he does not know one lick of the Bible by heart.

We shouldn’t judge the Salvation of others though, that is for God to decide.

Probably like many Catholics he is used to being prostelytized and possibly attacked for his faith in Jesus since he is identified as a Catholic. So rather than waste his time argueing, like we do , he prefers to witness by example. (I was targeted by a JW today who wanted to save me.)
Pure religion (James 1:27) is what comes to mind.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[KatieD]

Don’t presume you know your neighbor’s faith. As a Catholic, he certainly has heard much Scripture. Just because he doesn’t choose to quote chapter and verse to you doesn’t mean that he has less knowledge than you. I’ve been through this myself with Protestant relatives and I can tell you I have absolutely no interest in this sort of debate with them. Respect his wishes and leave him be.

 

[Victorious]

No! I believe that God gave us His Word to lead us to Jesus Christ and to guild us in our walk with Him. It is your responsibity to study the Bible and let it speak to us. Jereimiah said "thy Word is in my heart as a flaming fire: (20:9) We need to have Gods Word hid in your Hearts, Psalm 119;10 Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee. Knowing gods word helps us not sin. This is why we Baptist make memorizing scripture so important.

Then how come there is so much of the Bible that Baptists don’t know? Like for instance:

2 Thessalonians 1:15:

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

And 2 Peter 1:20-21:

First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

And 1 Peter 4:21:

Baptism, which corresponds to this [Noah’s flood], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.

And 1 Corinthians 11:27-29:

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

Not to mention James 4:12:

There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor?

 

[KatieD]

Well said.

 

[MrS]

Then how come there is so much of the Bible that Baptists don’t know? Like for instance:

2 Thessalonians 1:15:And 2 Peter 1:20-21:And 1 Peter 4:21: And 1 Corinthians 11:27-29:Not to mention James 4:12:

While this is an excellent addition to the topic at hand… and I laud you for it…

I find that your signature is absolutely awesome… thank you for bringing it to the forum

(and I certainly intend to borrow it …often)

.

 

[Will_Pick]

My next door neighbor is a older man that is a widower and lives a quiet live be himself. He was raised Catholic and goes to mass every week. He believes that he is going to heaven because he was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church and goes to mass every week. However he knows nothing about what the Bible teaches. I have asked him what the Bible teaches about baptism or other doctrines of the of the Bible and he has no answers at all. In fact he does not even want to talk about Jesus Christ. So when he dies where will he go, heaven or hell?

forever Baptist
allischalmers

Good questions but your answer is a question you need to ask Our Father,Thats His job and not yours,do the best you can and let Him do His job.

 

[water]

However he knows nothing about what the Bible teaches. So when he dies where will he go, heaven or hell?

In your judgment, you think he knows nothing, but I wanted to let you know that he is the one who attends masses, receives the Holy Eucharist, listens to the Gospel every day. He might know lots of things that you think he does not know of. He might just does not feel comfortable with other belief - He sticks to what he believes.

A man know nothing about Bible vs. A man knows everything about Bible — Who goes to Heaven? … .we don’t know.

 

[Mommyof02green]

No! I believe that God gave us His Word to lead us to Jesus Christ and to guild us in our walk with Him. It is your responsibity to study the Bible and let it speak to us. Jereimiah said "thy Word is in my heart as a flaming fire: (20:9) We need to have Gods Word hid in your Hearts, Psalm 119;10 Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee. Knowing gods word helps us not sin. This is why we Baptist make memorizing scripture so important.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

Memorize in what way???

Which is more important to know what the Bible said, or to know what chapter and verse to turn too???

Chapter numbers and verse numbers are a “modern” thing to the Bible. There was a time when scripture did not have chapter numbers and verse numbers…

Chapters and verses of the Bible {click here}
Chapter and Verse Divisions {click here}

 

[Mommyof02green]

No! I believe that God gave us His Word to lead us to Jesus Christ and to guild us in our walk with Him. It is your responsibity to study the Bible and let it speak to us. Jereimiah said "thy Word is in my heart as a flaming fire: (20:9) We need to have Gods Word hid in your Hearts, Psalm 119;10 Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee. Knowing gods word helps us not sin. This is why we Baptist make memorizing scripture so important.

forever Baptist
allischalmers

To Catholics His Word = Christ. (See John 1:1-18).

God’s Word is not just a book it is Christ himself.

Does that mean we don’t read the Bible? No of course NOT. The CCC paragraph 133 said to be ignorant of Scripture means that you are ignorant of Christ.

To read all the CCC has to say regarding Sacred Scripture {click here}. After going to the link you will have to scroll down to Article 3: Sacred Scripture paragraphs 101-133

With that being said, Catholics are taught the Bible, but we are not necassarly taught to memorize this chapter or this verse. This is because we are taught to be especially attentive to the content and the unity of ALL OF SCRIPTURE. This means that verse xyz is not more important then verse abc. This means the verses are equal. The WHOLE Bible is important not just this verse here or that verse there.

You mention that your Neighbor does not know what the Bible has to say about Baptism. Well what does the Bible say about Baptism???

Scripture does very directly and very clearly support the Catholic teaching that Baptism saves us; that Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ; that Baptism washes away sin; and that through Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit…just as the Catholic Church teaches!

Baptism saves us! (see 1 Ptr 3:21 for example)

Baptism makes us a member of the Body of Christ! (see 1 Cor 12:13 for example)

Baptism washes away sin! (see Acts 22:16 for example)

Through Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit! (see Act 2:38 for example)

Also Scripture is clear on what is needed to make a VALID Baptism. A Valid baptism is a baptism with Water and the words I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. (see Mathew 28: 18-20; Act 8:38; and Acts 10:47)

So, if your neighbor was going to allow you to speak re: Baptism what would you of told him the Bible has to say re: Baptism??

 

[allischalmers]

To Catholics His Word = Christ. (See John 1:1-18).

Same as Baptist

Baptism saves us! (see 1 Ptr 3:21 for example)

But God saved me before I was baptized

Baptism makes us a member of the Body of Christ! (see 1 Cor 12:13 for example)

But I was a member of the Body of Christ before I was baptized

Baptism washes away sin! (see Acts 22:16 for example)

But my sins were washed away by the blood of Christ bafore I was baptized

Through Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit! (see Act 2:38 for example)

But I recieved the Holy Spirit before I was baptised

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[Mommyof02green]

Same as Baptist

But God saved me before I was baptized

But I was a member of the Body of Christ before I was baptized

But my sins were washed away by the blood of Christ bafore I was baptized

But I recieved the Holy Spirit before I was baptised

forever Baptist
allischalmers

I didn’t just make those things up…the Word of God said that that Baptism saves us; that Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ; that Baptism washes away sin; and that through Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit

Please see those passages.

Now do you go by what the Word of God said or not???

 

[water]

forever Baptist

What “Baptist” means to you?

 

[a_priori]

No! I believe that God gave us His Word to lead us to Jesus Christ and to guild us in our walk with Him. It is your responsibity to study the Bible and let it speak to us.

So what exactly do you do when one person studies and ends up Calvinist and another studies and ends up Arminian?

When you hang your hat on the Bible alone, you subject yourself to moving scriptural plate tectonics. The earth beneath your feet is moving and you have no reference point. You can make the Bible say most anything. The guy with the most compelling interpretation wins? You are at the mercy of questions about authorship, translation and context.

If I’m a JW and you’re a Baptist (Baptist dispensationalism is only 170 years old so it is “latter day” too), we can throw scripture at each other all day long. Who do you appeal to?

Throughout most of Christian history, the Church provided the accepted interpretation.

 

[a_priori]

So when he dies where will he go, heaven or hell?

No one can possibly know the answer to that question.

 

[LilyM]

No one can possibly know the answer to that question.

Well, apart from God, and I’d say your neighbour himself can make a reasonably educated (though not infallible) guess

 

[a_priori]

Well, apart from God, and I’d say your neighbour himself can make a reasonably educated (though not infallible) guess

That’s the problem. We ascribe to ourselves the ability to get a “read” on someone else’s heart by interpreting their words and lifestyle through our own subjective grid. This is hubris.

 

[Della]

But God saved me before I was baptized

God saved us all before we were baptized when Christ died upon the cross, but that doesn’t negate the need for baptism.

But I was a member of the Body of Christ before I was baptized

Your desire to love and serve him was a form of baptism–a baptism of desire that might have served you in God’s eyes if you had not been able to be baptized with water, as the Bible instructs us quite clearly to be.

But my sins were washed away by the blood of Christ bafore I was baptized

Actually, all our sins were washed away by the blood of Christ before we were born, but baptism brings the grace of Christ’s sacrifice to us personally, in our time and place.

But I recieved the Holy Spirit before I was baptised

forever Baptist
allischalmers

What you experienced is the redemptive love of Christ in an awakening to faith that can happen to anyone anywhere, but baptism does what the Bible says it does. It regenerates us and removes sin.

 

[MyPhilomena]

My next door neighbor is a older man that is a widower and lives a quiet live be himself. He was raised Catholic and goes to mass every week. He believes that he is going to heaven because he was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church and goes to mass every week. However he knows nothing about what the Bible teaches. I have asked him what the Bible teaches about baptism or other doctrines of the of the Bible and he has no answers at all. In fact he does not even want to talk about Jesus Christ. So when he dies where will he go, heaven or hell?

forever Baptist
allischalmers

hullo,

its not up to us to determine who goes to heaven or hell. that decision is up to Christ. Iam glad though that you talk to him very nice of you to be charitable to him