A Question for Catholics

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I couldn’t find a single one of these thoughts in the Bible. Sorry. Mary was a woman chosen for a special purpose. Why all of this other stuff?

In order to fulfill the role God had for her, she had to be sinless. Mary lived her whole live without sin. Also, at the foot of the cross, Jesus gave Mary to all of us to be our mother. (John 19:26-27). That interpretation may seem a sretch, but it also proves Jesus had no other siblings. if He had, surely He would have entrusted His mother to one of them.

 

[BrewMax]

In order to fulfill the role God had for her, she had to be sinless. Mary lived her whole live without sin. Also, at the foot of the cross, Jesus gave Mary to all of us to be our mother. (John 19:26-27). That interpretation may seem a sretch, but it also proves Jesus had no other siblings. if He had, surely He would have entrusted His mother to one of them.

What?? I do must say that this doesn’t sound Biblical to me. Mary isn’t my mother. She was a great Christian but she isn’t my mother.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

What?? I do must say that this doesn’t sound Biblical to me. Mary isn’t my mother. She was a great Christian but she isn’t my mother.

19:26. When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son.

19:27. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

newadvent.org/bible/joh019.htm

Jesus wasn’t just giving Mary to John to be as his mother, but to the entire Church.

Mary, as the mother of Christ, is by extension mother of the Church. If you are part of Christ’s Church, then Mary is your mother.

 

[Good_Daughter]

How can Mary be without sin? That doesn’t make sense. The Bible says ALL have fallen short of God’s grace.

Have infants fallen short of God’s grace? Have 4 year olds? How about individuals with a severe mental handicap? The Bible doesn’t seem to self-interpret very well, using the word ALL when there are so many logical exceptions.

Sacred Scripture is not meant to be separated from Sacred Tradition and the teaching authority of the Church. When the three are kept together, contradiction is impossible.

BrewMax, I can appreciate that Catholic teaching on Mary may sound foreign to you. I think you’re asking the right questions. There are some knowledgeable posters at CAF who I pray will help you find the reasonable answers you need.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

What?? I do must say that this doesn’t sound Biblical to me. Mary isn’t my mother. She was a great Christian but she isn’t my mother.

How do you think Jesus felt about his mother? How do you think Jesus treated his mother? Do you not want to imitate Christ?

 

[BrewMax]

Have infants fallen short of God’s grace? Have 4 year olds? How about individuals with a severe mental handicap? The Bible doesn’t seem to self-interpret very well, using the word ALL when there are so many logical exceptions.

Sacred Scripture is not meant to be separated from Sacred Tradition and the teaching authority of the Church. When the three are kept together, contradiction is impossible.

BrewMax, I can appreciate that Catholic teaching on Mary may sound foreign to you. I think you’re asking the right questions. There are some knowledgeable posters at CAF who I pray will help you find the reasonable answers you need.

So then you refute Scripture?

 

[Tonks40]

What?? I do must say that this doesn’t sound Biblical to me. Mary isn’t my mother. She was a great Christian but she isn’t my mother.

I’m sorry that these long-held Christian Traditions were not taught to you. There is more to Christianity than what is taught in the Bible.

 

[Tonks40]

So then you refute Scripture?

2 Thes 2:15

“Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.”

The Early Church passed Christ’s teachings through oral traditions first, then they were written, and were upheld by the Church. They all go hand-in-hand.

 

[Good_Daughter]

So then you refute Scripture?

In my first paragraph I questioned the meaning of a particular verse. In my second, I demonstrated what I believe to be the proper use of Sacred Scripture (in conjunction with Sacred Tradition, see 2 Thess 2:15, and the authority of Christ’s Church, see 1 Tim 3:15). I would never knowingly refute Scripture. If you could point out to me where I did, I would be greatful. Thanks.

 

[Delraek]

How can Mary be without sin? That doesn’t make sense. The Bible says ALL have fallen short of God’s grace. And didi you say that James was Jesus’ cousin? I’m lost there too. The Bible says that he was Jesus’ brother. I never realized that the Catholic church teaches things which are contrary to the Bible. I never knew this.

The greek word/title the angel Gabriel uses for Mary is “kecharitomene”, which indicates that God has already “graced” Mary previous to this point making her a vessel who *has been *and *is now *filled with divine life.

The English translations do not do it justice.

 

[MarcoPolo]

How would would you like to have been one of Jesus’ brothers or sisters? Mary would be saying, “James, why can’t you be more like Jesus?” James would probably answer, “Why can’t you be more like Jesus?”

My question: Would you or would you not be affected by this anecdote?

I would point out that the statement was made out of Protestant eagerness to deny Mary’s sinlessness.

 

[Jordan_Francis]

BrewMax,

Your statements are opertaing on the erroneous opinion that scripture is the sole rule of faith. The New Testament gradually came into compilation over the first several generations of Christians and was not even authoratatively assembled until several centuries into the history of the Church. *Because scripture does not say everything there is to say about Christ *and his actions and words (John 21:25) and because the texts of scripture were not avaialbe to all Christians in the way they are today, the sacred Traditions of the early Christian community that were passed on orally are seen as an equally valid rule of faith.

For this reason not everything that the Church teaches has to be explicitly in scripture. How shallow a view of Christianity that the entire religion would be contained in a single book!

 

[Jordan_Francis]

BrewMax,

Your conclusions are operating on the erroneous opinion that the bible is the sole rule of faith. We know that the Bible does not record everything that Jesus did or said (john 21:25).

Sacred Tradition is a valid source of our faith. The early Christians did not have an authoratative compiliation of scripture and much of their teachings were passed on orally. Secondly, scripture is not self explanatory, as the conflicts over various heresies such as the Arian and Gnostic heresies taught us. The Apostolic Tradition gives us the lense through which scripture was interpreted and by which it continues to be interpreted today.

This is why refering to the view of the authoratative members of the early Christian community are very important in trying to understand the Bible today.

What a shallow of the Christian religion to think that it is all contained in one book!

 

[Jordan_Francis]

*encountering some problems with the system. For some reason I have to make a second post for my first post to appear.

 

[BrewMax]

newadvent.org/bible/joh019.htm

Jesus wasn’t just giving Mary to John to be as his mother, but to the entire Church.

Mary, as the mother of Christ, is by extension mother of the Church. If you are part of Christ’s Church, then Mary is your mother.

Sorry, I don’t buy that. If this logic were to be true then Mary would actually be Jesus’ mother-in-law as well because she is mother of the church too. Not sensical and certainly not Biblical. Sorry to disagree with you. I do wish to remain charitable but I must disagree.

 

[BrewMax]

BrewMax,

Your statements are opertaing on the erroneous opinion that scripture is the sole rule of faith. The New Testament gradually came into compilation over the first several generations of Christians and was not even authoratatively assembled until several centuries into the history of the Church. *Because scripture does not say everything there is to say about Christ *and his actions and words (John 21:25) and because the texts of scripture were not avaialbe to all Christians in the way they are today, the sacred Traditions of the early Christian community that were passed on orally are seen as an equally valid rule of faith.

For this reason not everything that the Church teaches has to be explicitly in scripture. How shallow a view of Christianity that the entire religion would be contained in a single book!

That one single book seems to be the ONLY thing that has stood the test of 2000 years and has NOT changed. It has become everything its authors professed it would be: the same yesterday, today and forever. Nothing else can make this claim.

 

[JFonseka]

I couldn’t find a single one of these thoughts in the Bible. Sorry. Mary was a woman chosen for a special purpose. Why all of this other stuff?

Really, you either haven’t read the Bible or missed it, I recall it was in Luke that the angel said “Haily mary, full of grace”

Mary was chosen from the very beginning, she is mentioned in genesis as “the woman”.
I can’t remember the exact scriptural quote, but it went like this:

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, between her offspring and yours”

This was God telling Satan, and the woman is NOT eve, it’s the same woman that Jesus mentions when he addresses his mother as “woman” in canaa’n and also when he is on the cross, furthermore this “woman” is mentioned in revelations, and it certainly isn’t Eve who is going to appear in the sky.

This goes in line with what the Angel said, about mary being “full of grace” she had a special purpose, even before she was born.

Hail Mary

 

[lak611]

That one single book seems to be the ONLY thing that has stood the test of 2000 years and has NOT changed. It has become everything its authors professed it would be: the same yesterday, today and forever. Nothing else can make this claim.

I suggest you download and listen to this free mp3.

 

[JFonseka]

Sorry, I don’t buy that. If this logic were to be true then Mary would actually be Jesus’ mother-in-law as well because she is mother of the church too. Not sensical and certainly not Biblical. Sorry to disagree with you. I do wish to remain charitable but I must disagree.

Your premise is flawed, you suppose just because it doesn’t make sense to you that it is not Biblical, which is not the way the Bible works, sorry. If that were the case then there would a 6 billion different interpretations of the bible with each one saying this bit doesn’t make sense and hence not biblical.

Don’t be so naive. God created reason and logic, for you to use that to say the Bible isn’t logical is a paradox and non-sensical too !

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Sorry, I don’t buy that. If this logic were to be true then Mary would actually be Jesus’ mother-in-law as well because she is mother of the church too. Not sensical and certainly not Biblical. Sorry to disagree with you. I do wish to remain charitable but I must disagree.

You realize that when the Church is referred to as the Bride of Christ, it’s figurative? It is an illustation of a point.