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TEPO
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Then why do the Bishops of the United States continue asking the faithful to lobby our congressmen for political reasons…?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=700623
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=700623
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Julian0404
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Youkonbrad,
Have you not understood the outcome with the HHS mandate proposed by Pres Obama and HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius ? It is nothing short of having to surrender your Catholic faith and identity or close numerous Catholic institutions and hospitals because the Catholic church will not follow the “mandate”, which is law.
No, it is not the Church that has defined our faith in terms of politics, it is Pres Obama and Kathleen Sebelilus who have done so, and it is now on our door step to say “Yes” or “No” to the definition of our faith which they are “re-enginering”.
Are you not aware the Kathleen Sebelilius - former governor of the State of Kansas - was admonished three times by her then Bishop, Joseph Naumann to withdraw from communion due to her fierce support for abortion? Are you not aware that Kathleen Sebelilius is quoted as stating “We are at war with the Catholic Church”?
What it means to be Catholic Youkonbrad is to NOT deny the faith, which is what we are being asked to do.
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yukonbrad
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What everyone is missing is that this thread is over an invite to a fundraising dinner. Yes I understand the serious threat certian political actions pose for the Church, however, it demeans us as Catholics to be petty like children arguing over a tonka truck in a sandbox and snub Obama. From my position it is more of an insult TO invite him as it shows we (Catholics) don’t play such childish games as others do.
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pangaious
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Have you read the whole website? Do they say that they will prohibit anyone from practicing the religion of their choice? What is in issue and/or discussion here is not they’re beliefs but their brilliant idea concerning other matters. We dont need money. What we need is the resources to be available to us. The present system is outdated and has not solved the problems we face today and have faced since the monetary system was introduced.The “Venus project” is a utopian dream, and they don’t believe in God, or any religion, they replace it with some kind of cosmos (let the force be with you) goobogoobly gook.
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cmforte
Guest
Or we could just follow Jesus’ commandments about giving without expecting anything in return or getting an earthly reward for it.
But that won’t happen, so we’re stuck with this system.
-Chris
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TEPO
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A few weeks ago at Costco, a man approached me and my wife begging for enough gas money to make it to Riverside… As my wife handed him two dollars, his mouth dropped and he gave a sour face before we walked away from him. When we returned to our car it had a key scratch across the rear driver side door…Or we could just follow Jesus’ commandments about giving without expecting anything in return or getting an earthly reward for it.
But that won’t happen, so we’re stuck with this system.
-Chris
I believe there’s an old saying that goes something like: “No good deed goes unpunished”…
Point being, we should never, ever expect earthly rewards for our good deeds, in fact we might be better off expecting the opposite.
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ricks1948
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Yes I have been to their website, and yes they have a lot of good ideas, especially alternative energy sources,such as solar,wind, hydro, geo thermal etc. Also I agree with their ideas about doing away with a monetary economy, and replacing it with a resource based economy, and for it to work everyone would have to co-operate. Thats why its a utopian dream. What I don’t agree with is their blaming our world problems in part on Jesus Christ and his followers and all other religions, among other things. And yes they say they will replace existing religions with their version of some kind of cosmic “mungo jumbo” You read it!
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RobbyS
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Capitalism is economic liberalism. Unlike the others, however, it is not really an ideology, but a means of producing private wealth. It does not, however, necessarily lead to democracy. We can look at Wilhelmine Germany and today’s Communist China as examples of authoritarian states with a capitalist economy. Best way to look at it is as a historical development related to the industrial revolution. It works because capitalists are engaged not in a war but a Perpetual argument/ It is said that Wilbur and Orville Wright were constantly arguing one approach or another, shouting at each other like they were about to start a fist-fight. But then change sides, each man arguing the other side as vehemently as he had argued the other. Like a medieval disputation where two friars were so passionate that a stranger would not know they might be men who seldom raised their voices. The creative process turned loose on the production. sale and transportation of goods.
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andrewstx
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I have no idea where Riverside is, but it must be close indeed if you can get there on 1/2 gallon of gasoline.A few weeks ago at Costco, a man approached me and my wife begging for enough gas money to make it to Riverside… As my wife handed him two dollars, his mouth dropped and he gave a sour face before we walked away from him. When we returned to our car it had a key scratch across the rear driver side door…
I believe there’s an old saying that goes something like: “No good deed goes unpunished”…
Point being, we should never, ever expect earthly rewards for our good deeds, in fact we might be better off expecting the opposite.
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TEPO
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:doh2:
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white_sheep
Guest
I know it is easy to think this way but it simply isn’t true. Using the effects of communism is hardly an argument against my case, but rather one for it. Have you known many people from Africa? I have, they have all told me that we Americans are very hard working. One fellow I knew from Cameroon said that it is not uncommon for a man to die there without having ever worked a day in his life. How can that be if the minimum amount of work necessary to survive is 80+ hours per week? He said they worked much less there than we do here.
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white_sheep
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Oh, and you don’t have to look to exotic examples like Africa or Mexico. I remember when I was in Mexico all the poor people who lived close to subsistence lives and visiting a town there where almost no one worked, yet they all had food. How can that be? They should have all starved to death long ago. You can just look around yourself and see that the closer people are to subsistence lifestyles the less they work. Go to the inner city sometime. People work much less there than they do in the suburbs, yet they seem to be alive and not starving.
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cmforte
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I know where both San Diego and Riverside are. You can’t. It’s about 100 miles. But the guy should have been happy that he got at least $2.
-Chris
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JRKH
Guest
An anecdotal story is hardly evidence…
But I will grant that you rightly ask…“How can this be?”…However - it is significant that you provide no answer to that question…
In relation to the bolded…
This is going to depend on where you look around and how you define "work.
The “inner city” people you refer to and not working are generally receiving government aide of some sort. Someone else is working to support them. See how well these same people would fare if that support were suddenly removed.
Other places where people live “subsistence lifestyles”, they may not “work” in the same manner we are use to in our society but their entire day is consumed with trying to get food - keep food - make shelter etc…
And that presumes that these people - such as you describe in Africa and Mexico are NOT getting some sort of charitable assistance…From other people who ARE working…
Let me take all that you possess from you…
Your house, car, job, money, everything…Then - let’s place you and several like minded people together in a community in the middle of a wilderness with only three hatchets, three knives and three fishing poles…Nothing else…except the clothes on your back.
We’ll drop you off on March 1 and will leave you there for a year…
At the end of that year - we’ll come back and see just how hard you had to work just to maintain your subsistence lifestyle…
Peace
James
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PrayHarder
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JRKH:
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andrewstx
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Why slap your forehead? I don’t get it. I am only politically conservative when it comes to abortion and gay “marriage”.
I can’t afford to be conservative, I am disabled, and I count too. Can’t work, can’t drive, can’t even bathe and dress myself. I have $3 in my pocket now.
And now we have a claimed Catholic who wants to do away with medicare and social security, unless you pay for it yourself. I don’t think that Our Lord taught social darwinism, to the winner goes the spoils in the gospels.
Don’t others matter?
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Well, I think we all know the Church has condemned socialism, communism, and the welfare state, so it would be appreciated someperson555 if you stop broadcasting how you favor socialism. 
That said, what might be news to some folks is that the Church doesn’t speak too fondly of neoliberalism. Not just classical liberalism, but neoliberalism (which was news to me when I found out).
From the Encyclical Ecclesia in America:
That said, what might be news to some folks is that the Church doesn’t speak too fondly of neoliberalism. Not just classical liberalism, but neoliberalism (which was news to me when I found out).
From the Encyclical Ecclesia in America:
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Ender
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You need to find other sources of information as the ones you’re using are feeding you nonsense. Your understanding of Ryan’s position on medicare and social security bear no resemblance at all to what he’s actually proposed. This is a bogeyman argument and such a fanciful creature no more exists among Republicans than he does under your bed.
Ender
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interestedman
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Conservative Catholics IN AMERICA oppose socialism. That is because Republicans have a similar stance on social issues as the church so most if not all “conservative Catholics” are also Republican. Since conservative Catholics are very likely to pick a belief system and subscribe to it 100% (their beliefs that the church cannot err) they believe that the Republican party is right pretty much 100% of the time. And the Republican part is against socialism. Very simple really.
You should check the gun law thread. Almost everyone was for gun rights because American Catholics are Republicans and Republicans are for gun control. If you polled European Catholics the polls would be reversed, guaranteed.
To be a conservative Catholic you have to have the mindset of sticking with your team. You have to have the mindset that everything the Catholic Church does is right or good and the same can be said about the Republican party.
You should check the gun law thread. Almost everyone was for gun rights because American Catholics are Republicans and Republicans are for gun control. If you polled European Catholics the polls would be reversed, guaranteed.
To be a conservative Catholic you have to have the mindset of sticking with your team. You have to have the mindset that everything the Catholic Church does is right or good and the same can be said about the Republican party.
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cmforte
Guest
This is where a private charity or church (like, say, The Catholic Church?) (or “Antiochian Orthodox”) should step in and help you. Herein lies the problem: we private citizens, we christians and our churches, have given up the christian obligation to take care of the less fortunate and instead passed it on to government where it doesn’t belong.
(But then again, as another poster pointed out, your interpretation of Ryan’s economic policy, and of the Republicans in general, is flawed.)
-Chris
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