A Question for LDS

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Stephen168 said:
How does this relate to God DNA? Where did it come from?
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Stephen,
Joseph Smith taught,
"God himself could not create himself.

“Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

“The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.”

You have identified a puzzle. I have an inkling of the answer, but no clear picture of the answer, so what Joseph Smith taught and what John recorded will have to suffice.
 
ParkerD said:
Stephen,
Joseph Smith taught,
"God himself could not create himself.

“Intelligence is eternal and exists upon a self-existent principle. It is a spirit from age to age and there is no creation about it. All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.

“The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.”

You have identified a puzzle. I have an inkling of the answer, but no clear picture of the answer, so what Joseph Smith taught and what John recorded will have to suffice.
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Is this taught in the standard works?
 
ParkerD said:
Rebecca,
No. Just because we understand DNA to some extent now through science, does not make the knowledge that Jesus inherited His Father’s divine attributes new doctrine.

Do you believe Jesus has human DNA from Mary?
Yes. He was called the son of David, no? He was a descendant of David, son of Jesse. That would mean He had the DNA attributed to that descendancy.
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Well, ok, but I hope you realize all of this is very problematic for a Christian. Jesus is not a demigod, of half-human , half-god, origins. He is God Incarnate.
Qualified, is an interesting word to use.
He was the Creator of this earth; He volunteered to suffer as our Savior on earth when the question was asked “Whom shall I send?” He was willing to do that because He knew perfectly that He could do it, and that He loved all of us enough to do it. He loved us with a perfect love even then.
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Also problematic for a Christian, as Jesus IS God. Everything you have here, I suppose, goes well with a view of demigods.

God IS Love. God had no need to send anyone, He came Himself. Which is the astounding beauty of Christian belief. God lowered Himself in order that we might be raised.
Because He had God DNA?
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Yes. He had power over death, life in Himself. He was the Son of a Divine Father. He could “lay down His life” and “take it up again.” He taught this very clear doctrine over and over again to His disciples.
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Yes, He did, but He wasn’t talking about DNA. He was telling the disciples over and over, He IS God.
 
Stephen168 said:
Where did God the Father get his DNA?
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You have this backwards. We were made in HIS image, not He ours. Therefore, wherever He got it, He obviously used it in the physical creation of His Only Begotten Son.

Of course, “DNA” might be the wrong term–but it is as close as we can come to the concept of what makes people the individuals they are. What Jesus got from His Father was that “stuff” that made Him unique…the Son of His Father and not the son of any mortal man.
 
RebeccaJ said:
This is a new twist since I left Mormonism. DNA was not known then. Is this a new doctrine?
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You’ve been gone from the church since 1953?

…and I wouldn’t call it a ‘new twist.’ I WOULD call it an ‘easier way to explain things,’ since DNA is very well known as the stuff that determines human characteristics at birth. Whatever it actually was that Jesus got from His Father, it obviously acted like DNA, (in that it determined His physical characteristics as much as His inheritance from His mother did) so we may as well call it that.
RebeccaJ said:
Do you believe Jesus has human DNA from Mary?
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I suppose…it seems rather obvious since every other human ever born has it.
 
As a biochem and molecular bio student, I find this talk about God DNA hilarious.
 
Stephen168 said:
Are divine attributes encoded in DNA?
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How in the world would WE know?

Perhaps some were…we do know that Jesus the Christ WAS the Only Begotten Son of God. I’m sure that God had a reason for doing that.

After all, if divine attributes were solely held in the spirit, why go to all the trouble of physically siring a Son? Why not just pick someone who would be born to a mortal couple?

However, all this is speculation.

What we know is this: Jesus the Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God. That makes Him utterly unique. Whatever it is He got, physically, from His Father was important. Perhaps it was simply that it was important to the ultimate sacrifice; more Personal that God gave HIS Son, the Son that was His in all ways–and in ways that none of the rest of us, though we are also His children spiritually, shared. Perhaps that is what it is He received.

Perhaps what He recieved wasn’t for Him…but for us; the understanding that God loved us so much that He would put His Son through all that, for us; that He wasn’t just putting US through mortal life, torture and death, but that He would give us His Only Begotten Son, as well.

That’s…sufficient for me. I don’t need to worry about what else may or may not have come with it. We have been given NO information about that, anyway, one way or another.
 
dianaiad said:
You’ve been gone from the church since 1953?
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hmmm, no, but DNA “back then” was an interesting thing in a helix shape. That is what I remember of it. It certainly hadn’t been incorporate into LDS theology. Not by any of the crazy seminary teachers I ever had. And they taught some crazy stuff. God DNA would be right in there, in a flash.
…and I wouldn’t call it a ‘new twist.’ I WOULD call it an ‘easier way to explain things,’ since DNA is very well known as the stuff that determines human characteristics at birth. Whatever it actually was that Jesus got from His Father, it obviously acted like DNA, (in that it determined His physical characteristics as much as His inheritance from His mother did) so we may as well call it that.
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okee dokee
I suppose…it seems rather obvious since every other human ever born has it.
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Only obvious to an anthropomorphic polytheist.
 
LDSGuy said:
As a biochem and molecular bio student, I find this talk about God DNA hilarious.
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So does the person who used the term. She is, frankly,sniggering.

What she is forgetting is this: Jesus WAS fully human; He was born an infant. He grew. He bled. He died.

SOMETHING told His body what to do when…if it wasn’t DNA, it was something that did that job. So making fun of it may be all very entertaining, but…

Nobody who has the doctrine that Christ was ‘fully human and fully God’ can ignore the ‘fully human’ part. Humans have DNA.

If a human does not, he isn’t, then, ‘fully human,’ is he? He may look like one and behave as one, but he’s not one.

Perhaps a better explanation of the Catholic view of what God gave His Son vs. what Mary did (whether you call it ‘DNA’ or not) is here: newadvent.org/cathen/08617a.htm
 
dianaiad said:
Both. Don’t you believe that He was fully God and fully human? Well, you ought to remember…so do we.
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No, you changed this. What was taught was that Jesus was not exalted, not made a God, until after His death.

This thing where Mormons are saying Jesus was a God before then, is new.

He was nothing more than a man before then. The “DNA” he got from the father, merely human.

You don’t believe Jesus is fully God and fully human. Mormons don’t even know what that means.
 
RebeccaJ said:
hmmm, no, but DNA “back then” was an interesting thing in a helix shape. That is what I remember of it. It certainly hadn’t been incorporate into LDS theology. Not by any of the crazy seminary teachers I ever had. And they taught some crazy stuff. God DNA would be right in there, in a flash.

okee dokee

Only obvious to an anthropomorphic polytheist.
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Hey.

That would be ‘anthropomorphic henotheist,’ thankyouverymuch. I’m all for accuracy in labels.

If you have to use labels.
 
dianaiad said:
So does the person who used the term. She is, frankly,sniggering.

What she is forgetting is this: Jesus WAS fully human; He was born an infant. He grew. He bled. He died.

SOMETHING told His body what to do when…if it wasn’t DNA, it was something that did that job. So making fun of it may be all very entertaining, but…

Nobody who has the doctrine that Christ was ‘fully human and fully God’ can ignore the ‘fully human’ part. Humans have DNA.

If a human does not, he isn’t, then, ‘fully human,’ is he? He may look like one and behave as one, but he’s not one.

Perhaps a better explanation of the Catholic view of what God gave His Son vs. what Mary did (whether you call it ‘DNA’ or not) is here: newadvent.org/cathen/08617a.htm
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I’ve never really thought about DNA in relation to Jesus, and it really gets into areas that we really are just speculating on, and should just be left up to the mystery of God. For example, ok He received His human DNA from Mary. But how did He become male if it’s only from Mary? If males are XY and females are XX, then you need a male to donate the Y chromosome and the female to donate the X to become male. If his human DNA comes from Mary, how much of it? Normally we get 23 out of 46 chromosomes from each parent. So if He got half from Mary, what about the rest that gives Him a complete set that would then make Him fully human? Therefore this is really a sticky area, and the virgin birth is truly a miracle of God.
 
dianaiad said:
Nobody who has the doctrine that Christ was ‘fully human and fully God’ can ignore the ‘fully human’ part. Humans have DNA.

%between%
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Diana, Jesus is fully human because of His Mother, not because of His Father.

What is amusing, is GOD DNA, not human DNA.
 
LDSGuy said:
As a biochem and molecular bio student, I find this talk about God DNA hilarious.
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According to the other Mormons on this thread, God DNA seems to be the difference between Christ and other spirit children of God. I’m hoping it is a bad analogy, but so far this is all we got.
 
RebeccaJ said:
No, you changed this. What was taught was that Jesus was not exalted, not made a God, until after His death.

This thing where Mormons are saying Jesus was a God before then, is new.

He was nothing more than a man before then. The “DNA” he got from the father, merely human.

You don’t believe Jesus is fully God and fully human. Mormons don’t even know what that means.
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Rebecca,
Perhaps you had a seminary teacher who taught poorly. Jesus was Jehovah in pre-mortal life and in the history of our world up until He was born of Mary. He is the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, fully God. This doctrine is very clear in the LDS church.
 
ParkerD said:
Rebecca,
Perhaps you had a seminary teacher who taught poorly. Jesus was Jehovah in pre-mortal life and in the history of our world up until He was born of Mary. He is the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, fully God. This doctrine is very clear in the LDS church.
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When do you believe He was exalted?
 
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