christus_vincit
You asked:
Regarding the Four Marks of the Church (FMC) . . .
Lutherans often include the FMC in their creeds. Some just change the Creed (as has been stated) to “One, Holy, Christian, and Apostolic”. Other various Lutheran ecclesial communions leave the Creed intact (“One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic”). I have seen it both ways in assorted Lutheran services.
Asserting it and defending it is quite another thing for our Lutheran friends and family members.
I have never heard a Lutheran defend the four marks of the Church in my conversations with them (I am not saying it does not happen, I am just saying I have never heard it from them in conversation and they DO seem to shy away from the topic when it is brought up).
The one-ness makes Lutherans very uncomfortable as it doesn’t fit in their religious traditions that have spawned from the Reformation. The word “Catholic” (even with a small “c”) sometimes makes Lutherans and some other non-Catholics uncomfortable.
Regarding the “Apostolic” aspect, that also seems to depend on the Lutheran you talk to.
(Various Catholics may offer differing opinions too concerning Apostolicity, but in various Lutheran communities, since they have no earthly person that has God-given, God-protected authority, there can be no definitive settling of such a difference at least in an authoritative manner. Catholics can be authoritatively corrected).
Lutherans view Apostolic Succession different than the Church views it.
This impossibility to have the “One” (of the FMC) or unity in Lutheranism occurs on account of the Lutheran ecclesial motif.
This lack of unity is one of the reasons my dad left one of the Lutheranisms for Catholicism.
Christus_vincit (and others), I think you already have this Papal/unity paradigm in your heart. But I will elaborate on a point or two as there are other readers of this thread here that may not . . .
The Pope (who has a special office) is the living visible sign of Christian unity on earth among other things. Christ set it up this way. That’s why the Church can be ONE. No other religion can authentically have this level of unity or “one-ness”.
St. Peter (along with the other Apostles) were to become fishers of men.
Now think of John 21, the Resurrected Lord Jesus, and the Apostles on the Sea of Galilee.
When the net was brought to shore in John 21, the Apostles had to drag it, as it was so heavy (assuming these “large fish” averaged 7 pounds, this net-full, would weigh approx. half a ton).
Yet when the Resurrected Lord Jesus orders fish to be brought to Him, St. Peter alone is described as bringing the net “full of large fish” to Him. I am not saying the others didn’t help Peter. But I am saying St. John only describes St. Peter as bringing this untorn or unschismed net.
It would be worth prayerfully dwelling on John 21:10-11 and asking yourself if there could be deeper meanings here or if this is mere coincidence (St. John certainly isn’t trying to tell us about St. Peter’s muscular prowess. Nor is he telling us about the superb fishing-net material).
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JOHN 21:10-11** 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have now caught.” 11 Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not torn (literally the net was not “schismed” or “schisthe”).
The Church is ONE, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.
Lutherans are not One in this sense. Lutherans are not in the fullest sense, Catholic either.
And for Lutherans, the concept of Apostolic Succession is not the same as the Church (One, Holy, Catholic, and APOSTOLIC).
These are probably among the reasons why I never hear the Four Marks defended by Lutherans (although again, technically speaking, these Four Marks are usually affirmed by Lutherans, but this “affirmation” turns out to be something quite different from what the Church teaches–which is just what you’d expect perhaps).
