A question for moslems out there...regarding Jesus

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Poof

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So, let me get this straight…
  1. Jesus is a prophet of Islam right?
  2. Jesus was sent down to earth to spread the word of Allah here on earth? (Right? I’m assuming here…)
If so, why is it that Jesus’ mere presence on earth resulted in zero Islam converts? Jesus is responsible for the rapid growth of Christianity. I find it amusing that an Islam prophet ended up spreading a very different religion (Christianity) instead of spreading the religion that he was meant to spread? (Islam). Summing it all up, you guys believe that Jesus is a prophet of Islam while all he did was spread Christianity? If Jesus was indeed an Islam prophet who was sent on earth to spread Allah’s word, shouldn’t Europe’s religion be more Islam? Shouldn’t all those old beautiful churches scattered over Europe be old beautiful Mosques instead?

I’m guessing he was born somewhere else…somewhere out of Europe or something?
Now, I’m assuming that moslems would have their own beliefs about Jesus thus giving us two Jesus.
  • The Christian Jesus and the Moslem Jesus.
If this is the case then is there evidence of any sort, may it be eyewitness reports or anything for that matter that proves that the Islam Jesus actually existed?

Just want to understand things here. 😃
 
If this is the case then is there evidence of any sort, may it be eyewitness reports or anything for that matter that proves that the Islam Jesus actually existed? Or is this considered a dogma in Islam? (Dogma: a firm belief in something, regardless of proof.)
 
Poof said:
So, let me get this straight…
  1. Jesus is a prophet of Islam right?
  2. Jesus was sent down to earth to spread the word of Allah here on earth? (Right? I’m assuming here…)
If so, why is it that Jesus’ mere presence on earth resulted in zero Islam converts? Jesus is responsible for the rapid growth of Christianity. I find it amusing that an Islam prophet ended up spreading a very different religion (Christianity) instead of spreading the religion that he was meant to spread? (Islam). Summing it all up, you guys believe that Jesus is a prophet of Islam while all he did was spread Christianity? If Jesus was indeed an Islam prophet who was sent on earth to spread Allah’s word, shouldn’t Europe’s religion be more Islam? Shouldn’t all those old beautiful churches scattered over Europe be old beautiful Mosques instead?

I’m guessing he was born somewhere else…somewhere out of Europe or something?
Now, I’m assuming that moslems would have their own beliefs about Jesus thus giving us two Jesus.
  • The Christian Jesus and the Moslem Jesus.
If this is the case then is there evidence of any sort, may it be eyewitness reports or anything for that matter that proves that the Islam Jesus actually existed?

Just want to understand things here. 😃
Click to expand...
God is One. So, is His religion, and its name has been Islam since the first human being and the prophet of God, Adam. Muhammad is one and the last of the prophets of the religion of Islam.

islam is not simply the name of a religion, the followers of which are called Muslims. The word ‘Islam’ is an arabic word which in relation to religion means submission. In simple words Islam means submission to God and to follow the instructions conveyed by the Prophet of one’s time e.g.Islam at the time of Abrahim (peace be upon him) was to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Abrahim (p.b.u.h). Islam at the time of Moses (peace be upon him) was to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Moses (p.b.u.h). Islam at the time of Jesus (peace be upon him) was to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h). In the same manner, Islam after the arrival of the last Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h).

is that enought to understand the overall view ?
feel wellcome if you have other questions
 
Poof said:
If so, why is it that Jesus’ mere presence on earth resulted in zero Islam converts? Jesus is responsible for the rapid growth of Christianity
Click to expand...
I guess I don’t understand your questions. Since Jesus lived 600 years before the founding of the religion known today as Islam, how could he convert people to it? I think according to Islam the role of prophets, before Muhammad, was to preach monotheism and submission to God. Surely Jesus did this to some extent? And he may have influenced people? I think Muslims would say that it was Jesus’ followers who founded Christianity, corrupting his message (in particular with the idea of the Trinity, which Muslims see as setback to polytheism.)
Poof said:
Now, I’m assuming that moslems would have their own beliefs about Jesus thus giving us two Jesus.
  • The Christian Jesus and the Moslem Jesus.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget that the different branches and denominations of Christianity have different views of Jesus, and his nature. I’m not sure it is accurate to say that Christians are so united in how they view Jesus that there is a “Christian Jesus” and a “Muslim Jesus.” Perhaps such categories are over-generalizations.
 
Poof said:
If this is the case then is there evidence of any sort, may it be eyewitness reports or anything for that matter that proves that the Islam Jesus actually existed? Or is this considered a dogma in Islam? (Dogma: a firm belief in something, regardless of proof.)
Click to expand...
Believing in and worshipping Allaah alone, besides Whom there is no other god, is the greatest teaching brought by the Messiah, and it is the greatest teaching brought by all the Prophets.

“One of the teachers of the law came and noticed them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’
‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”
The second is this: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no commandment greater than these.’
‘Well said, teacher,’ the man replied. ‘You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
To love him with all your heart, with you all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important that all burnt offerings and sacrifices.’
When Jesus saw that he has answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’ And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.”
Mark 12:28-34 – NIV

do not think that this advice was given to Israel or to his own people only. Rather this is the basis of the teachings of all the Prophets. The same advice appears in the Gospel of Matthew, in similar wording, after which he says:

“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:39 – NIV

This belief in the oneness of God is indeed the message of all of the Prophets. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad) but We revealed to him (saying): Laa ilaaha illa Ana [none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allaah)], so worship Me (Alone and none else)”
[al-Anbiya’ 21:25]

Muslim is not a name of a particular group but an arabic word for one who submits to the concept of Islam, also known as ‘Believers’ e.g. In the era of Prophet Moses (p.b.u.h), people who followed him, believed in all the Prophets and Revelations before him and obeyed the orders of God were Muslims. In the era of Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h), people who followed him, believed in all the Prophets and Revelations before him and obeyed the orders of God were Muslims. In the same manner, after the arrival of the last Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h), people who follow him, believe in all the Prophets and Revelations before him and obey the orders of God are known as Muslims.

do you know that jesus used word muslim in Luke 6:40
Luke 6:40 (KJV)
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that **is perfect **shall be as his master.

The perfection here means a spiritual one. What the verse is saying is that knowledge is not what matters! The teacher or master is higher in knowledge than his student. But the student can be as high as his teacher, or even higher,** by being a true ‘MUSHLAM’ or Muslim, a spiritually perfect and well-disciplined person!**



“Ein talmeed na’leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she **'MUSHLAM **yihyeh k’rabbo.”
Taken from the Aramaic bible society.

The most accurate and honest translation for the Aramaic Mushlam is none other than the Arabic Muslim, which means Believer!
 
elwill said:
God is One. So, is His religion, and its name has been Islam since the first human being and the prophet of God, Adam. Muhammad is one and the last of the prophets of the religion of Islam.

islam is not simply the name of a religion, the followers of which are called Muslims. The word ‘Islam’ is an arabic word which in relation to religion means submission. In simple words Islam means submission to God and to follow the instructions conveyed by the Prophet of one’s time e.g.Islam at the time of Abrahim (peace be upon him) was to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Abrahim (p.b.u.h). Islam at the time of Moses (peace be upon him) was to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Moses (p.b.u.h). Islam at the time of Jesus (peace be upon him) was to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h). In the same manner, Islam after the arrival of the last Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is to obey the orders of God and to follow the instructions of the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h).

is that enought to understand the overall view ?
feel wellcome if you have other questions
Click to expand...
If God = 1, then there must be 1 religion. If there is 1 religion, then there must be 1 greatest prophet. If there is one greatest prophet, then there is one group of follower of such religion. If there is only 1 group of follower, then there must be only 1 human race (others are merely sub-race or descendant). If there is only 1 human race, then there must be only 1 language (which is the language the word of God was revealed). If there is 1 language, then there must be only 1 country, (other which are not in accordance to the 1 standard, are called pagan, and must be conquered in whatever way necessary).

At least we have more than 1 muslims having that kind of thought. Some of them, sadly speaking, are operating here in Indonesia. Geez, I do not know whether I should buy a dictionary of such 1 language.

Oh…dear, I suddenly don’t know what “prularity” means.
 
elwill said:
Believing in and worshipping Allaah alone, besides Whom there is no other god, is the greatest teaching brought by the Messiah, and it is the greatest teaching brought by all the Prophets.

“One of the teachers of the law came and noticed them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’
‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”
The second is this: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no commandment greater than these.’
‘Well said, teacher,’ the man replied. ‘You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
To love him with all your heart, with you all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important that all burnt offerings and sacrifices.’
When Jesus saw that he has answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’ And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.”
Mark 12:28-34 – NIV

do not think that this advice was given to Israel or to his own people only. Rather this is the basis of the teachings of all the Prophets. The same advice appears in the Gospel of Matthew, in similar wording, after which he says:

“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:39 – NIV

This belief in the oneness of God is indeed the message of all of the Prophets. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammad) but We revealed to him (saying): Laa ilaaha illa Ana [none has the right to be worshipped but I (Allaah)], so worship Me (Alone and none else)”
[al-Anbiya’ 21:25]

Muslim is not a name of a particular group but an arabic word for one who submits to the concept of Islam, also known as ‘Believers’ e.g. In the era of Prophet Moses (p.b.u.h), people who followed him, believed in all the Prophets and Revelations before him and obeyed the orders of God were Muslims. In the era of Prophet Jesus (p.b.u.h), people who followed him, believed in all the Prophets and Revelations before him and obeyed the orders of God were Muslims. In the same manner, after the arrival of the last Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h), people who follow him, believe in all the Prophets and Revelations before him and obey the orders of God are known as Muslims.

do you know that jesus used word muslim in Luke 6:40
Luke 6:40 (KJV)
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that **is perfect **shall be as his master.

The perfection here means a spiritual one. What the verse is saying is that knowledge is not what matters! The teacher or master is higher in knowledge than his student. But the student can be as high as his teacher, or even higher,** by being a true ‘MUSHLAM’ or Muslim, a spiritually perfect and well-disciplined person!**

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hebrew_2.gif

“Ein talmeed na’leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she **'MUSHLAM **yihyeh k’rabbo.”
Taken from the Aramaic bible society.

The most accurate and honest translation for the Aramaic Mushlam is none other than the Arabic Muslim, which means Believer!
Click to expand...
Surely, I believe that God is ONE. I also believe that God has spoken to human being. In that case, God send His word to us. Now, the word of God is Jesus, as John 1:1 said. You cannot make your word become human, can’t you? But, God indeed CAN. The word of God became human being, so God speak to us, in our level of language.

Do you believe that God indeed CAN change His Word into Human form?
 
elwill said:
“One of the teachers of the law came and noticed them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’
‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”
The second is this: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no commandment greater than these.’
‘Well said, teacher,’ the man replied. ‘You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
To love him with all your heart, with you all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important that all burnt offerings and sacrifices.’
When Jesus saw that he has answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’ And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.”
Mark 12:28-34 – NIV

do you know that jesus used word muslim in Luke 6:40
Luke 6:40 (KJV)
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that **is perfect **shall be as his master.

The perfection here means a spiritual one. What the verse is saying is that knowledge is not what matters! The teacher or master is higher in knowledge than his student. But the student can be as high as his teacher, or even higher,** by being a true ‘MUSHLAM’ or Muslim, a spiritually perfect and well-disciplined person!**

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hebrew_2.gif

“Ein talmeed na’leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she **'MUSHLAM **yihyeh k’rabbo.”
Taken from the Aramaic bible society.

The most accurate and honest translation for the Aramaic Mushlam is none other than the Arabic Muslim, which means Believer!
Click to expand...
What contradiction you post to us :
  1. You said that knowledge is not what matters, and yet you quote Jesus said that we must love God with all of our MIND. I wonder what your dictionary said the meaning of MIND in your language.
  2. You said that Jesus used the word of Muslim in Luke 6:40. During the time of Jesus, or the time Luke wrote his bible (around 80AD), Muslim was not yet existed. Muhammad was born 600 years after Jesus. Do you think that time goes from AD to BC?
  3. You said that Muslim is the best spiritually diciplined people, and yet I can have many meaning of Jihad if I ask a Muslim named Elwill, Hamba, Oshama Bin Laden, the Bali Bombers, etc. Also, given the differences of meaning, one group of Islam cannot hold the action done by other group of Islam.
  4. You mentioned about Aramaic book, and yet you don’t mentioned the title of the book, who wrote it, when it was written. I think that you are knowledgable enough to conclude that an Aramaic can write anything in Aramaic. But, it will not necessarily become a bible just because it is in the same language that Jesus spoke. You should also know that I can write a poem in Arabic, but that is not necessarily part of Quran, just because it is in Arabic.
 
Just wanted to point out that" Muslims never existed before that"

If you surrender to the will of God, or believe in God alone : YOU ARE A MUSLIM…

Now the questions are…

DidJesus a.s surrender to the Will of God?

Did Jesus a.s believe in God alone?

Please let me know what you think, I’m interested in what you guys think:) I love having an open dialogue, Hahah we do it all the time at work! if in the end we have to resort to agree to disagree, than maybe we have both learned from each other.

Thanks

Your Sis, Canada
 
elwill said:
do you know that jesus used word muslim in Luke 6:40
Luke 6:40 (KJV)
40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that **is perfect **shall be as his master.

The perfection here means a spiritual one. What the verse is saying is that knowledge is not what matters! The teacher or master is higher in knowledge than his student. But the student can be as high as his teacher, or even higher,** by being a true ‘MUSHLAM’ or Muslim, a spiritually perfect and well-disciplined person!**

http://www.answering-christianity.com/hebrew_2.gif

“Ein talmeed na’leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she **'MUSHLAM **yihyeh k’rabbo.”
Taken from the Aramaic bible society.

The most accurate and honest translation for the Aramaic Mushlam is none other than the Arabic Muslim, which means Believer!
Click to expand...
“Islam” in arabic means submission and obedience, the passage of Luke 6:40 shows obedience to the master in Aramaic language which is very similar to arabic, most arabs use the word “Aslam” to define submission, it doesn’t necessary mean the religion of Islam.
 
Seek_Truth said:
Just wanted to point out that" Muslims never existed before that"

If you surrender to the will of God, or believe in God alone : YOU ARE A MUSLIM…

Now the questions are…

DidJesus a.s surrender to the Will of God?

Did Jesus a.s believe in God alone?

Please let me know what you think, I’m interested in what you guys think:) I love having an open dialogue, Hahah we do it all the time at work! if in the end we have to resort to agree to disagree, than maybe we have both learned from each other.

Thanks

Your Sis, Canada
Click to expand...
To freely and accept God and to know God. vs To submit to God; submit meaning lack of freedom. Which displays greater Love? To freely come to God,acknowledge Him, love Him, to follow in His path will always be the greater love. God doesn’t want submission to His teaching because we will never come to truly know Him because the very act of submission also means to conform to a view that is truly not our own but of someone else or in this case God’s.
Did Jesus surrender to the will of God? No. He was God and knew God in the fullness of the Truth by His nature and by His very choice ( because He was also human ). Jesus displayed freedom in His very nature rather than submission.
Having said all this, there is only ONE God. He is Love, who exists in the fullness of Love. The Lover,the Beloved, and the Love that they share. ie Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
 
Seek_Truth said:
Just wanted to point out that" Muslims never existed before that"

If you surrender to the will of God, or believe in God alone : YOU ARE A MUSLIM…

Now the questions are…

DidJesus a.s surrender to the Will of God?

Did Jesus a.s believe in God alone?

Please let me know what you think, I’m interested in what you guys think:) I love having an open dialogue, Hahah we do it all the time at work! if in the end we have to resort to agree to disagree, than maybe we have both learned from each other.

Thanks

Your Sis, Canada
Click to expand...
I surrender myself to God. Am I a Muslim? I may think that I am a Muslim by such definition. The problem is, my Muslim friends don’t think that I am a Muslim.
 
Seek_Truth said:
Just wanted to point out that" Muslims never existed before that"

If you surrender to the will of God, or believe in God alone : YOU ARE A MUSLIM…

Now the questions are…

DidJesus a.s surrender to the Will of God?

Did Jesus a.s believe in God alone?

Please let me know what you think, I’m interested in what you guys think:) I love having an open dialogue, Hahah we do it all the time at work! if in the end we have to resort to agree to disagree, than maybe we have both learned from each other.

Thanks

Your Sis, Canada
Click to expand...
I agree that all holy people who submitted to God were being muslims to use the arabic word to describe that particular attitude. These will includes even our modern Catholic Saints like Mother Teresa.
I only think that the Mohammad and all who thought like him have deformed and disfigured the holy meaning of submission. It is my hope that Islam will be redeemed.
The redemption of Christ reach the depth of the human nature, and this includes words and spiritual meaning attached to them.

God bless
 
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