A question for Non-denominationals

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I have gotten into discussions, both here and elsewhere, wherein non-denominational Christians insist that they are not Protestant. This befuddles me. The theology of non-denominationals is very much built on the theology of the Reformation, so why the denial of the facts?
 
Never been non-denominational myself, but an old friend goes to a non-denominational church. We actually had this conversation last week, and he told me that they only consider the actual Reformation churches to be Protestant. Lutherans, Reformed Churches/Presbyterians, and Anglicans (and perhaps Methodists) are what he and his church declare to be Protestant. Maybe they were looking more at denominational lineage and history than theological similarity? There do seem to be two schools of thought: the “we are non-Catholic and non-Orthodox” camp vs. the “we actually engaged in the Reformation” camp. Still trying to sort through this one myself. 😃
 
I think in many instances they view denominations as an impediment to one’s relationship with Jesus. In their opinion and probably in their experiences they’ve come from denominational churches that were bitterly divided over doctrinal or dogmatic questions. They saw people become too wrapped up in those questions and divisions and then forsake their relationship with God or make it of secondary importance.

In becoming non-denominational they just adopt the term Christian and see it as being opposed to something like Methodist, or Presbyterian, or Lutheran or something like that. In their mind this frees them from being beholden to any sort of dogmas and allows them to delve more fully into scriptures and allow it to teach them and not have God’s word filtered through “man made” doctrines.

I think subconsciously while trying to do this, they don’t realize the extent to which they bring their backgrounds with them. Their theology is probably a melange of various denominations viewpoints cobbled together into a whole. While doing this they imagine they are taking what is good and true from others and fashioning a Jesus-centered church that is something like what the Apostle’s had. But in their scriptural exegesis they are not usually radically different from the Protestant denominations they shun. They read the Bible and see no sacraments, they see no special role for Mary, Baptism has a diminished role – if one at all. I suspect that even if walking into a non-denominational church for the first time you can be fairly accurate in guessing what they do and don’t teach and preach on.

ChadS
 
CWBetts said:
I have gotten into discussions, both here and elsewhere, wherein non-denominational Christians insist that they are not Protestant. This befuddles me. The theology of non-denominationals is very much built on the theology of the Reformation, so why the denial of the facts?
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they can self-indentify any way they want, and yes it is true that some newer denominations, non-denom groups, some fundamentalists, some pentecostals, etc. have rejected key elements of the Reformers, and rejected some “Catholic” doctrine that was retained by the original reformers. That process of accepting and rejecting the “classic” reformed movement has been going on continuously since the Reformation so it is nothing new.
 
I’d say being Catholic is the best thing you could be. When you join, you already have a “package” waiting for you, that is, doctrines and dogmas and whatnot and a 2,000 year resume of scriptural interpretations and apostolic tradition. Its not like starting some “none denominational” church where in a single lifetime one tries to formulate an entire religion, and given that the Bible is so large, the beliefs often encompass only certain Bible verses while sometimes completely disregarding others.

In short, being Catholic is like buying a guitar fully strung, with an amplifier, tuner, pick, and everything you need. Starting a none denominational church can be like buying a guitar, unstrung, with nothing else.👍
 
CWBetts said:
…The theology of non-denominationals is very much built on the theology of the Reformation…
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CWBetts,
Is this a statement of fact or a rhetorical question? If it is fact, can you prove it, if rhetorical, how will you know if someone gives you the correct answer?
 
Jon_Hus said:
CWBetts,
Is this a statement of fact or a rhetorical question? If it is fact, can you prove it, if rhetorical, how will you know if someone gives you the correct answer?
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It is factual, on at least two points. I have yet to meet a non-denominational evangelical who did not hold to the innovations of Sola Scriptura and Sola FIde, both of which were invented out of nothing by Martin Luther.
 
CWBetts said:
It is factual, on at least two points. I have yet to meet a non-denominational evangelical who did not hold to the innovations of Sola Scriptura and Sola FIde, both of which were invented out of nothing by Martin Luther.
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Saying that these are inventions of Luther is not the same a proving it. You may be interested in knowing, for example, that Luthers inquisitors called him “The Saxton Hus”. A little research on the matter may prove valuabe if say you were to debate this topic in a public setting with someone knowledgable with respect to history who is outside of you religious community. The again , perhaps you enjoy being humiliated, in which case feel free to ignore anything I say.

Jan Hus
 
Jon_Hus said:
Saying that these are inventions of Luther is not the same a proving it. You may be interested in knowing, for example, that Luthers inquisitors called him “The Saxton Hus”. A little research on the matter may prove valuabe if say you were to debate this topic in a public setting with someone knowledgable with respect to history who is outside of you religious community. The again , perhaps you enjoy being humiliated, in which case feel free to ignore anything I say.

Jan Hus
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Bring it on. I have forgotten more than you know
 
I consider myself non-denominational, though I belong to a local church affiliated with Assemblies of God. But it was the local church I joined, not the denomination. I don’t say I’m AG or Pentecostal, I just say I’m a Christian.

I don’t deny being Protestant: that’s what Christians who aren’t Catholic or Orthodox are called. And certainly part of my theology comes from Martin Luther. But some also comes from Augustine, Aquinas, Gregory of Nyssa and Kierkegaard, among others. I’m happy to learn from any Christian source, and I don’t much care whether it’s Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox so long as it lines up with Scripture primarily, and Reason, Tradition and Experience secondarily.
 
So Mr.Betts,
You contend that Sola Scriptura were invented by Luther, I ask that you consider Hus (for an example, there are others before Hus), you then challange me to spar, complete with subtle insult. Your turn Sir.
 
Jon_Hus said:
So Mr.Betts,
You contend that Sola Scriptura were invented by Luther, I ask that you consider Hus (for an example, there are others before Hus), you then challange me to spar, complete with subtle insult. Your turn Sir.
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There were none before the Protestant deformation.
 
CWBetts said:
There were none before the Protestant deformation.
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Your nay-saying doesn’t necessarily make it so. I think Jon Hus asked a question that in all fairness deserves an answer.

But from what I’ve been able to gather he is correct Jon Hus (the Czech priest) taught a version of sola scriptura and during his trial for heresy he said he would only recant if he was proven wrong from the Bible, much like Luther did later on.

Hus was also a great admirer of Wycliffe, from England. Hus studied his works extensively and quoted or paraphrased much of them in his own writings. I believe Wycliffe is considered an early “English” reformer.

I believe it is in error to say that Luther deserves full credit for all of the Reformation ideas. Some of them were certainly in play at least a century prior to Luther in Renaissance European intellectual circles. This doesn’t make them right and it certainly isn’t meant to imply that these ideas stretch back to the times of the apostles.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hus

ChadS
 
CWBetts said:
I have gotten into discussions, both here and elsewhere, wherein non-denominational Christians insist that they are not Protestant. This befuddles me. The theology of non-denominationals is very much built on the theology of the Reformation, so why the denial of the facts?
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JL: They claim they are not protesting anything, yet they are protesting the denominations they left to form thier non-denomination denominations. Making ever congregation another denomination. My expirence when I was "non-denominational denominational Protestant, they are denominations unto themselves because they can’t get along with anyone else.
 
ChadS said:
Your nay-saying doesn’t necessarily make it so. I think Jon Hus asked a question that in all fairness deserves an answer.

But from what I’ve been able to gather he is correct Jon Hus (the Czech priest) taught a version of sola scriptura and during his trial for heresy he said he would only recant if he was proven wrong from the Bible, much like Luther did later on.

Hus was also a great admirer of Wycliffe, from England. Hus studied his works extensively and quoted or paraphrased much of them in his own writings. I believe Wycliffe is considered an early “English” reformer.

I believe it is in error to say that Luther deserves full credit for all of the Reformation ideas. Some of them were certainly in play at least a century prior to Luther in Renaissance European intellectual circles. This doesn’t make them right and it certainly isn’t meant to imply that these ideas stretch back to the times of the apostles.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hus

ChadS
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If I were you, I would reconsider defending someone who holds to heretical ideas.
 
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