a question for noncatholic christians

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Hypothetically, if your church, denomination, fellowship, sect, or congregation, or its leadership, decided to merge with Rome, thus becoming part of the Roman Catholic Church, what would you do? would you follow into Rome, or would you leave and find another church? (or denom., etc…)
 
traillius said:
Hypothetically, if your church, denomination, fellowship, sect, or congregation, or its leadership, decided to merge with Rome, thus becoming part of the Roman Catholic Church, what would you do? would you follow into Rome, or would you leave and find another church? (or denom., etc…)
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I would follow into communion with Rome with great joy and gratitude.
 
traillius said:
Hypothetically, if your church, denomination, fellowship, sect, or congregation, or its leadership, decided to merge with Rome, thus becoming part of the Roman Catholic Church, what would you do? would you follow into Rome, or would you leave and find another church? (or denom., etc…)
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Leave.
 
The Orthodox Church wouldn’t merge with Rome without some major “concessions” (from Rome). I’m not too worried. What choice would I have if they merged, though. Could I leave the “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church”? I doubt it.
 
PeaceSerenity said:
The Orthodox Church wouldn’t merge with Rome without some major “concessions” (from Rome). I’m not too worried. What choice would I have if they merged, though. Could I leave the “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church”? I doubt it.
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What are those “concessions” being requested from Rome?
 
pablope said:
What are those “concessions” being requested from Rome?
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From what I understand, the Orthodox and Catholic churches haven’t established an official list of what they would want in a merger, but the Orthodox would not compromise any of their doctrine. That means Immaculate Conception, the Filioque, and things like that would have to go. Papal Supremacy and Infallibility is sort of a problem, not only because if the huge biblical debate, but also because the effects it has on the Church (you have one Pope denouncing immaculate conception, one pope declaring it as doctrine, and both of them being infallible). I’m not sure how serious the EO CC unity discussion has gotten, but as of right now it doesn’t seem realistic.
 
PeaceSerenity said:
From what I understand, the Orthodox and Catholic churches haven’t established an official list of what they would want in a merger, but the Orthodox would not compromise any of their doctrine. That means Immaculate Conception, the Filioque, and things like that would have to go. Papal Supremacy and Infallibility is sort of a problem, not only because if the huge biblical debate, but also because the effects it has on the Church (you have one Pope denouncing immaculate conception, one pope declaring it as doctrine, and both of them being infallible). I’m not sure how serious the EO CC unity discussion has gotten, but as of right now it doesn’t seem realistic.
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Can you Quote the two Popes you mentioned ,Please. Thank you.Also letters and councils.Peace, Carlan
 
traillius said:
Hypothetically, if your church, denomination, fellowship, sect, or congregation, or its leadership, decided to merge with Rome, thus becoming part of the Roman Catholic Church, what would you do? would you follow into Rome, or would you leave and find another church? (or denom., etc…)
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As a Friend, I think I’m pretty safe…the Society of Friends would not seek to merge with Rome…
 
PeaceSerenity said:
From what I understand, the Orthodox and Catholic churches haven’t established an official list of what they would want in a merger, but the Orthodox would not compromise any of their doctrine. That means Immaculate Conception, the Filioque, and things like that would have to go. Papal Supremacy and Infallibility is sort of a problem, not only because if the huge biblical debate, but also because the effects it has on the Church (you have one Pope denouncing immaculate conception, one pope declaring it as doctrine, and both of them being infallible). I’m not sure how serious the EO CC unity discussion has gotten, but as of right now it doesn’t seem realistic.
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Thanks, PS.

What surprised me was the OC do not recognize the Immaculate Conception? Is this true?
 
PeaceSerenity said:
Goodness, you’re putting me to work 🙂 I’ll get right to it
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Forgive me, I misspoke. The issue wasn’t Immaculate Conception, it was the Filioque, I got it all muddled in my head.

809 Pope Leo III forbids addition of Filioque to Creed and has original Creed in both Greek
and Latin inscribed on silver tablets displayed in Rome.
1014 First use of Filioque by Pope of Rome, at coronation of Holy Roman Emperor Henry II

The general problem is the development of doctrine. Things that weren’t heretical in 1400 are heretical now.

I also found a more complete list of what would be required in order for the Orthodox and Catholics to reunite (from the Orthodox perspective)

"In order for the Orthodox Church to accept sacramental communion with the Roman Catholic Church,that is, for Roman Catholics to be readmitted into the Orthodox Church, they have to repudiate and reject (not merely brush aside or “theologize around”) the following:
  1. Papal Universal Jurisdiction
  2. Papal Infallibility
  3. Papal Petrine exclusivism (i.e., that only the Pope is Peter’s successor)
  4. Development of Doctrine
  5. The Filioque
  6. Original Sin understood as guilt transmitted via “propagation”
  7. The Immaculate Conception of Mary
  8. Divine Simplicity
  9. Merit and Satisfaction soteriology
  10. Purgatory and Indulgences
  11. Created grace
Roman Catholics would have to accept and fully confess:
  1. The authority of Ecumenical Councils over the Pope
  2. The Essence/Energies distinction
Roman Catholics would have to restore Orthodox practices (already present for Eastern Catholics):
  1. Reconnect Confirmation/Chrismation back to Baptism rather than delaying it
  2. Give Holy Communion to all Church members, including infants
In other words, what the Orthodox expect of Roman Catholics is that they become Orthodox again"
 
PeaceSerenity said:
Forgive me, I misspoke. The issue wasn’t Immaculate Conception, it was the Filioque, I got it all muddled in my head.

809 Pope Leo III forbids addition of Filioque to Creed and has original Creed in both Greek
and Latin inscribed on silver tablets displayed in Rome.
1014 First use of Filioque by Pope of Rome, at coronation of Holy Roman Emperor Henry II

The general problem is the development of doctrine. Things that weren’t heretical in 1400 are heretical now.

I also found a more complete list of what would be required in order for the Orthodox and Catholics to reunite (from the Orthodox perspective)

"In order for the Orthodox Church to accept sacramental communion with the Roman Catholic Church,that is, for Roman Catholics to be readmitted into the Orthodox Church, they have to repudiate and reject (not merely brush aside or “theologize around”) the following:
  1. Papal Universal Jurisdiction
  2. Papal Infallibility
  3. Papal Petrine exclusivism (i.e., that only the Pope is Peter’s successor)
  4. Development of Doctrine
  5. The Filioque
  6. Original Sin understood as guilt transmitted via “propagation”
  7. The Immaculate Conception of Mary
  8. Divine Simplicity
  9. Merit and Satisfaction soteriology
  10. Purgatory and Indulgences
  11. Created grace
Roman Catholics would have to accept and fully confess:
  1. The authority of Ecumenical Councils over the Pope
  2. The Essence/Energies distinction
Roman Catholics would have to restore Orthodox practices (already present for Eastern Catholics):
  1. Reconnect Confirmation/Chrismation back to Baptism rather than delaying it
  2. Give Holy Communion to all Church members, including infants
In other words, what the Orthodox expect of Roman Catholics is that they become Orthodox again"
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Roman Catholics didn’t leave the Orthodox Church, The Orthodox Churches chose to be schismatic. So, you would be rejoining Rome, not welcoming it back.
 
traillius said:
Roman Catholics didn’t leave the Orthodox Church, The Orthodox Churches chose to be schismatic. So, you would be rejoining Rome, not welcoming it back.
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The Orthodox and Catholic Churches have different views on that, we both think we left each other. I took that as a direct quote from an Orthodox perspective, so it is no surprise that it would embrace the…Orthodox perspective. I’m not interested in debating it, though, it seems like something that would turn into a “he started it” “no, he started it” debate 😃
 
PeaceSerenity said:
Forgive me, I misspoke. The issue wasn’t Immaculate Conception, it was the Filioque, I got it all muddled in my head.

809 Pope Leo III forbids addition of Filioque to Creed and has original Creed in both Greek
and Latin inscribed on silver tablets displayed in Rome.
1014 First use of Filioque by Pope of Rome, at coronation of Holy Roman Emperor Henry II

The general problem is the development of doctrine. Things that weren’t heretical in 1400 are heretical now.

I also found a more complete list of what would be required in order for the Orthodox and Catholics to reunite (from the Orthodox perspective)

"In order for the Orthodox Church to accept sacramental communion with the Roman Catholic Church,that is, for Roman Catholics to be readmitted into the Orthodox Church, they have to repudiate and reject (not merely brush aside or “theologize around”) the following:
  1. Papal Universal Jurisdiction
  2. Papal Infallibility
  3. Papal Petrine exclusivism (i.e., that only the Pope is Peter’s successor)
  4. Development of Doctrine
  5. The Filioque
  6. Original Sin understood as guilt transmitted via “propagation”
  7. The Immaculate Conception of Mary
  8. Divine Simplicity
  9. Merit and Satisfaction soteriology
  10. Purgatory and Indulgences
  11. Created grace
Roman Catholics would have to accept and fully confess:
  1. The authority of Ecumenical Councils over the Pope
  2. The Essence/Energies distinction
Roman Catholics would have to restore Orthodox practices (already present for Eastern Catholics):
  1. Reconnect Confirmation/Chrismation back to Baptism rather than delaying it
  2. Give Holy Communion to all Church members, including infants
In other words, what the Orthodox expect of Roman Catholics is that they become Orthodox again"
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Peace and Serenity, So the Hierarchys continue their discussions and we continue our prayers,;):)Peace, Carlan
 
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