A question for OSASers

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Dokimas said:
So what does the following mean?

Heb 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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While I consider that, why don’t you explain what Jesus means in the Prodigal Son. The son received an inheritance (we receive an inheritance when we are saved). The son frittered it away. Then he returned to life.
 
Dokimas said:
So what does the following mean?

Heb 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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The Church defines apostasy in the Catechism # 2089 as, *the total repudiation of the Christian faith; *and the Catholic dictionary defines apostasy as, *the total rejection of a baptized person of the Christian faith he once possessed. *If the inspired writer is talking about Jewish practices and doctrine, he may also be referring to those Jews who were baptized into the New Covenant but then apostatized and returned to the Old Covenant rituals and practices which could only identify and judge sin.
 
Dokimas said:
So what does the following mean?

Heb 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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This is a tough one … But, we can’t ignore it.

We know Paul isn’t speaking of Prodigals. The Prodigal didn’t FALL AWAY into Apostasy. He just went off to live in secular world, apart from his Father. He wasn’t declaring he was Atheistic, he wasn’t denouncing God or selling out Christ …as an Apostate might. He didn’t deny the Father, but was being disobedient and worldly. These can be restored to their First Love.

So, Paul must be talking here of Apostates, Judas types who will sell out their Lord for a price … and “crucify again for themselves the Son of God, putting Christ to an open shame”, as did Judas.
 
brb3 said:
a Church established by Jesus … built upon a man, one of 12 men? :whistle:

dangerous to change our theology beliefs ?.. when Christ told the Jewish Temple leaders they need to do this very thing, if they desired to see Heaven :hmmm:
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Our faith is not based on the doctrines dna precepts of men.
**The Church is built upon Peter but it was *not *Peter who created our doctrines. **

Our doctrines were revealed through the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).
If you truly believe that we practice the doctrines and precepts of mere men - then you don’t understand the Church that Christ established.

It is not only dangerous to change our doctrines - it is unthinkable. It is the holy Spirit who reveals what is true - and truth does NOT change. If somebody changes their doctrines - then they were ALWAYS wrong.
 
brb3 said:
Yes, I’ve heard that sermon. It is very, very errant. But, John Mac is sorely mistaken about the Catholic Church. Just as the first apostles were occasionally mistaken about who was preaching the Christian message … he is very wrong in his opinion.

If John could spend a day with a priest or the pope, attend several masses, or debate Staples or Hahn on the Catholic Church … he would rethink his beliefs and recant.

At least he is open-minded on scripture/theology … and God will be able to confront him successfully someday. If all the Catholics who listen to him would pray for him … it might happen real soon. But, if he ever does … don’t expect him to give up his OSAS beliefs. I think the Church could tolerate his definition of OSAS … since the Church can accept OSAS in those to whom it has been a ‘private’ revelation.
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**No. **
MacArthur isn’t mistaken - he’s a LIAR. That is much worse than merely being mistaken.
Our doctrines and beliefs are not secret. Anybody can read the Catechism online or in printed form to find out what we believe.

MacArthur CHOOSES to perpetuate a lie instead of what we really believe.
I don’t know what your beliefs are - but your claim that the Church cold accept his version of OSAS is false. The Church rejects the false doctrine of OSAS.
 
Dokimas said:
Can someone get ‘saved’ then u’nsaved’ then ‘saved’ again?
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Nope. Not in the sense you mean.
Salvation is a lifelong process. We are not saved at any one time in our life. We are not saved until we make it to heaven. It’s not a slam-dunk like you think it is.

The Bible is not full of guarantees for those who believe - it is filled with God’s wonderful promise for those who remain faithful and endure to the end.

You need to read Scripture in CONTEXT to understand this and not take verses out of context by themselves. Read the following verses, then tell me that OSAS is valid - which it ain’t:**
**Romans 11:22, ****Hebrews 10:26-27, ****2 Peter 2:20-21, ****Matt. 7:21, ****1 Cor. 4:4, ****Matt. 24:13, ****John 15:1-9, ****Luke 8:1, ****Luke 2:42-46, ****John 6:66-71, ****John 15:1-10, ****1 Cor. 9:23-27, ****Col. 1:21-23, ****Heb. 3:12, ****Heb. 6:4-6, **Heb. 10:23-29
 
elvisman said:
Nope. Not in the sense you mean.
Salvation is a lifelong process. We are not saved at any one time in our life. We are not saved until we make it to heaven. It’s not a slam-dunk like you think it is.

The Bible is not full of guarantees for those who believe - it is filled with God’s wonderful promise for those who remain faithful and endure to the end. HARDLY an OSAS message.

You need to read Scripture in CONTEXT to understand this and not take verses out of context by themselves. Read the following verses, then tell me that OSAS is valid - which it* ain’t*:
**Romans 11:22, ****Hebrews 10:26-27, ****2 Peter 2:20-21, ****Matt. 7:21, ****1 Cor. 4:4, ****Matt. 24:13, ****John 15:1-9, ****Luke 8:1, ****Luke 2:42-46, ****John 6:66-71, ****John 15:1-10, ****1 Cor. 9:23-27, ****Col. 1:21-23, ****Heb. 3:12, ****Heb. 6:4-6, **Heb. 10:23-29
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brb3 said:
This is a tough one … But, we can’t ignore it.

We know Paul isn’t speaking of Prodigals. The Prodigal didn’t FALL AWAY into Apostasy. He just went off to live in secular world, apart from his Father. He wasn’t declaring he was Atheistic, he wasn’t denouncing God or selling out Christ …as an Apostate might. He didn’t deny the Father, but was being disobedient and worldly. These can be restored to their First Love.

So, Paul must be talking here of Apostates, Judas types who will sell out their Lord for a price … and “crucify again for themselves the Son of God, putting Christ to an open shame”, as did Judas.
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What does a person do to loose their salvation?
 
elvisman said:
Nope. Not in the sense you mean.
Salvation is a lifelong process. We are not saved at any one time in our life. We are not saved until we make it to heaven. It’s not a slam-dunk like you think it is.

The Bible is not full of guarantees for those who believe - it is filled with God’s wonderful promise for those who remain faithful and endure to the end.

You need to read Scripture in CONTEXT to understand this and not take verses out of context by themselves. Read the following verses, then tell me that OSAS is valid - which it* ain’t*:
**Romans 11:22, ****Hebrews 10:26-27, ****2 Peter 2:20-21, ****Matt. 7:21, ****1 Cor. 4:4, ****Matt. 24:13, ****John 15:1-9, ****Luke 8:1, ****Luke 2:42-46, ****John 6:66-71, ****John 15:1-10, ****1 Cor. 9:23-27, ****Col. 1:21-23, ****Heb. 3:12, ****Heb. 6:4-6, **Heb. 10:23-29
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Seems you’re making quite an assumption as to what you think I believe. That’s one of the many problems of thinking you’re a know it all.
 
Dokimas said:
What does a person do to loose their salvation?
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To commit and live in a state of mortal (deadly) sin.
**Whereas lesser (venial) sin ****damages **our relationship with God – mortal sin severs it.
**This is why John calls it “deadly sin” (1 John 5:16). **
Literally, sin that causes death.
 
Dokimas said:
Seems you’re making quite an assumption as to what you think I believe. That’s one of the many problems of thinking you’re a know it all.
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Because you’re implying that we can’t lose our salvation.
**If that’s ****not **what you meant – my mistake.
**BUT – if you *****DO ***believe in OSAS – the CONTEXT of Scripture is against you – as I illustrated with the many verses I provided.
OSAS is wrong because you can’t always have something you never had in the first place.
 
elvisman said:
Because you’re implying that we can’t lose our salvation.
**If that’s ****not **what you meant – my mistake.
**BUT – if you *****DO ***believe in OSAS – the CONTEXT of Scripture is against you – as I illustrated with the many verses I provided.
**OSAS is wrong because you can’t **always have something you never had in the first place.
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Where did I imply it?
 
NotWorthy said:
Wouldn’t you agree that Jesus is saying the Prodigal Son lost his salvation?
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I’m not sure the parable is about salvation.​

If you look at the father’s actions seems he never thought the son was less than a son.
 
Dokimas said:

I’m not sure the parable is about salvation.​

If you look at the father’s actions seems he never thought the son was less than a son.
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Have you read Luke, Chapter 15? There’s three parables in a row. Read the entire chapter, especially verses 7 & 11 and then tell me why you think the parable is not about Salvation.
 
elvisman said:
I’ve read many of your posts over the last year.
Do you believe in OSAS or did you come to this thread to argue *against *it?
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Int the many posts you’ve read of mine, which ones lead you to believe I believe OSASed?
 
NotWorthy said:
Have you read Luke, Chapter 15? There’s three parables in a row. Read the entire chapter, especially verses 7 & 11 and then tell me why you think the parable is not about Salvation.
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I"ve read it many times. Notice, each parable is about one doing whatever it takes to find what is lost which was origianlly in their position.​

The parables more about the ‘finder’ than the lost. Maybe it tells us the Father won’t let us get totally lost if we are His?
 
elvisman said:
I’ve read many of your posts over the last year.
Do you believe in OSAS or did you come to this thread to argue *against *it?
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I didn’t come here to argue but to raise questions as I think of them.
 
Dokimas said:
I didn’t come here to argue but to raise questions as I think of them.
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Oh, okay - then you wouldn’t mind answering the question I asked before:
**Do you believe in OSAS or did you come to this thread to argue against it?
 
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